Meet Curiosity Instigator, André van Hall

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with André van Hall. Let me tell you a little bit about him. Backed by 40 years of five-star leadership experience as an executive in the hospitality industry, André van Hall presents a fresh and proven message to audiences, which is curiosity is the key to instigate change. As the Curiosity Instigator, the challenges business executives and teams to adopt an attitude of curiosity in order to be innovative, to experience breakthrough thinking, and to be at the forefront of change. In other words, to become a change leader. I hope you enjoy the conversation as André and I sit down and we talk about him being that curiosity, instigator, and how we as leaders can benefit by approaching our day being a little bit more curious.

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone. Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit. This week, I am sitting down and talking to André van Hall, who is known as the curiosity instigator, André. Go ahead and tell us about yourself and let the, the Crestcom community know a little bit more about you, who you are, what you do and how you kind of came to be where you are today as the curiosity instigator.

André van Hall:

Right. Well, my great grandfather was born… No, I’m not going there, but really I am from Argentina and I did my military service there and I fell in love with I was a waiter for the officers eventually, and I loved it and that’s how I go into the hospitality industry. And I went to Germany and I worked in a hotel there and then France then give to the States to go to hotel school. Then I worked in hotels all over the United States. And so it was managing some of truly the most exclusive hotels at some of the larger ones. And but then in 2011, I went suddenly blind and that was something that happened within two weeks. And then I lost my job and I had to reinvent myself. And I, I just fell in love with the idea of being a professional speaker and I could speak on service.

You know, service is something I know forwards, backwards and sideways. I’ve trained literally thousands of people on service, but it, it didn’t excite me, you know, like it, it, it, it was, it was so ingrained in me that I wanted something new and different. And I had gone through so much change in my life, you know, two marriages, three continents, 12 cities and then going blind that I thought I could speak about change. And you know, I spoke at something is called the Colorado Speakers Academy, and I was going to speak on change, but they told us that you don’t only need to have a destination. You don’t only need to know what highway are you going to take, but within that highway, you need to pick a lane. And so I thought, I thought I did some research and I saw that nobody links change to curiosity.

You see people go to change about the things that happened inside of your brain and, and getting to the scientific side of change. But to me, it is, it changes something it’s more emotional, it’s something that’s inside of you. And and I realized that when I went blind that, that I was pushing back and that people were trying to help me. And and I was the curious, I was not curious about transitioning into blindness. And so I, I figured that linking curiosity to change would be truly a fabulous lane to, to get on. And then I built my business around speaking about change and curiosity. And then when I built my website and I had to get business cards and you know my last title was CEO and running a business and it didn’t turn me on. I mean, CEO was ho-hum and I wanted something completely different. And you know, so that when you give somebody your card, they go, what the heck is a Curiosity Instigator. So that is my title. I am the curiosity and CA and so, and here I am now at age 67 and loving what I do

What does Curiosity Have to Do with Change?

Jenn DeWall:

André. Like, I still have to recognize that we didn’t even take the pause. Right. You kind of skirted over the fact that you led a very successful career that took you to multiple continents. You hit that, you know, career destination of CEO is what many people aspire to do. That’s how we know we’ve made it. And then you had to completely do a redirect after finding or after suddenly becoming blind. How, like, how did you even begin to pick yourself up? Right. You just said that you were initially not curious, which makes total sense because this was something that was completely unplanned. Like how, how did you even begin to start to center yourself around curiosity?

André van Hall:

Well, thank you. Thank you, Jenn . And it’s a very insightful question. And, you know, as I lay on the gurney, so, so the day that I got diagnosed, I had gone to four different doctors. Okay. I went from an optometrist ophthalmologist to a retina doctor, to an optic nerve doctor. At 9:15 at night, there I was on a gurney at Lutheran Hospital. And the diagnosis was in, I would be blind in two weeks and I was scared. You know, you can imagine that I was angry and I was going down and down and down and into a cesspool of toxic emotions, of fear. And that is the thing, is that our brain, when confronted with change, tries to compare it with something that had previous experience in something like blindness, of course, it’s something you had never experienced. And so then you don’t know the way out.

And the, and the thing is that the very next day, one of the past presidents of the organization, that I was a CEO of came to see me. This is André. I heard you are gonna go blind and let’s go and spend some money to buy some devices to help you transition into blindness. And I had not thought about transitioning into blindness. So when, when I do my talk and I challenged my audience, and I say, so what is the channel? The change that is happening in your life, we always have some kind of change happening, and I’m not talking about the happy change, right? That I got married, hallelujah, or I had a baby I, I’m talking about difficult change and you think right away about transitioning. So, so your, your spouse says we need to talk. And you are headed into divorce.

The first thought is anger and things like that. And you, don’t think about transitioning into single life. And, and for me, transitioning into blindness was something I pushed back. You know, I am an avid cyclist. I would do 5,000 miles a year on my bicycle. I commuted 16 miles to work each way. And a friend of mine reached out and said, André, why don’t you? And I do a hundred-mile elephant drop bike ride on a tandem. And I’m like, you’re crazy. I’m an in-charge kind of guy, you know, there’s no way I’m going to get to the backseat of the bicycle. Okay. And you, you begin to realize that you can sit proudly at home on the couch, growing fat, and lazy, or you can give in and say, you know what? The backseat may not be so bad after all.

Curiosity and Humility

André van Hall:

But in, in, in my Bible study group, just months before we had been talking about humility, you know, and the definition that I liked the best was the ability to accept help. And boy was I not a humble man, I truly did not know how to accept help. So as is, as I realized slowly but surely over those two weeks, while you may say rather quickly that I had to give up my bicycle. Then I, one day I drove home and I passed a cyclist and I didn’t see him until the very last minute second. And I got home and sat on the driveway and have myself a good cry. And then I grabbed the keys and I went inside and I gave my wife the keys, and I said, don’t ever let me drive again. And as you go through that transition of realizing all of the things that you’re leaving behind, you know, I have a two and a half-year-old granddaughter who I’ve never seen now, I’ve never seen her face.

So is, is, you’re scared, right? You’re scared as, as you start to face this monumental change. And but you realize also that there are people like my friend, Tim, that wanted to get on the tandem, and my wife that is trying to get friends to get me a guide dog, and that people that are out there to train me how to use a cane. And that the, that there is this, this whole support system out there for you, that the people that love you. And I was pushing back. So I had to become curious and one slap at a time. Okay. And to realize that I can’t do it solo, you can’t do it alone. That change, difficult change is something that you need help, you need support, and that we are social animals. And you know, it’s, it’s there are people- I talk in my, in my, when I do my talk, talk about Zamperini and the book Unbroken, I don’t know, have you read the book or seen the movie?

Unbroken is an awesome book. It’s a good movie. And he’s a test pilot in world war two and crashes explained, and the outside of San Diego and he and his crew get on a life raft. And then that ended up the longest that any, anybody has ever been on the raft and ended up in the Pacific, on an Island, occupied by the Japanese and he’s a prisoner of war for the entire war. And this one guy makes it his mission to break Zamperini. And at the end of the war, he’s unbroken. And I thought people, there are times in our lives where it’s good to be unbroken, but that most times we need to learn to be flexible and to learn, to do things differently and to give in to our pride, so, and show humility. And that was what it was so hard for me.

Jenn DeWall:

Holy cow, André, I feel like there are so many insightful pieces that any leader could really stand to benefit from. First our own humility. Just recognizing that we do need help that, and I think, you know, leaders have a tendency to put a lot of pressure on themselves that they have to do it on their own, and you had to learn, and you were that person too, right? Stubborn. You’ve got it. Take control and having to learn to let go and recognize that we need help from others to be who we want to be, to achieve the outcomes that we want. And then also understanding that we have to slow down and acknowledge those moments. Like you had talked about how, you know, your final drive, how you, You know, had a close call with the cyclist, but then when you got to your driveway that you gave yourself permission to just process it. And I think, again, leaders are so quick that we just don’t slow down to process our own emotions and really give ourselves permission to feel that way. I mean, André, there’s just so many nuggets. Like, I, I love even starting with that and I, and our interdependence and just the need for ourselves to give ourselves grace. I just so many pieces of wisdom from that, but I can’t even imagine how it’s still difficult that would have been to eventually come over and go through that process,

André van Hall:

And Jenn, that’s why I truly enjoy speaking, in leadership conferences and to CEOs. And you know, I speak a lot in associations and because you have to learn as a leader. Again, that’s why I say I am the curiosity, instigator. And I, I tell organizations, if somebody is going to hire me to speak in our organization, I tell them, this is you realize I am going to challenge your people to challenge the status quo and to not accept what is, but to create what can be. And so many times in organizations, we have SOP right Standard Operating Procedures, or we have a tradition or something, a culture in the organization that has permeated it for a long, long time. And we don’t realize that we operate within the, the square of this organization.

Looking Forward to Change

André van Hall:

And an example is when I was the general manager of the Hyatt Regency in Louisville, Kentucky, my catering managers came to see me. And they said, you know, the dress code of Hyatt is that we have to wear skirts dresses and hose. And we want to wear pantsuits. My wife had been wearing, she was a national account manager, and she had been wearing pantsuits since the day that I met her. So I thought we were in the stone age. And I said, absolutely. You know, let me call corporate and I’ll have this changed. And I called corporate and I hit the brick wall, you know, and the, no, it’s not the image that we want to portray. And, and so many times, it’s that we’re not curious about where is this headed? You know, we think about now today in today’s world, this is the way it is. And then not seeing we need to be on the bleeding edge of change. I need to, we need to be in the, in the foresight side of change, where are we?

We’re seeing what is coming and anticipating and preparing for it and to tell a catering team in when was I there in 1998 or whatever that they could not wear pantsuits to me was absolutely ludicrous. And so, change is difficult and we resist it. And the safe answer is no, the safe answer is, you know, what, if I want to change this, I have to go to the president of the company who I have to go to you know, call the committee and so, so forth to rewrite the handbook. And I don’t want to rewrite the handbook right now. No, I’m not doing it. Okay. And, but what is it doing to the morale of your team? Hey, that’s just one silly example about how we push back on change. And so, so my stake is reach down, walk around, talk to your team members and hear them out. And not only your team members but your vendors, your suppliers, your clients, your past clients. Okay. And do management by wandering around so that you get that curiosity going where you show the people I’m curious about you. And I want you to be curious about our business and how to help us propel change, because in today’s world, if you always do what you always did, you’re out of business. Right. Right. So that’s why I have so much fun with it.

Don’t Judge. Assess Instead.

Jenn DeWall:

I mean, André, I could, Oh my gosh. I just love your story and your insight. And you also have just a great disposition as you talk about this. I’m so engaged. I’m sure our audience is too. I know we had talked about a few of the points that you think are really important for people to start to practice curiosity around change. And one of the points you had was I believe, don’t judge? Don’t judge, assess instead. Tell us more.

André van Hall:

You know, it’s interesting I am a fan of Pope Francis because not only is he from my hometown, but he is trying to change a 2000 year old institution that is steep, steep in tradition. Right. And so Forbes magazine did an article on him and said, what would happen if we brought these 12 leadership principles into the boardroom? And I read them, but this one is the one that resonated with me. Don’t judge, assess. Because they feel that within the church, we’re so judgmental so many times about the sexual orientation, about divorce, about, I don’t want to get into the politics of church, but it’s, it’s judgmental. And when, when I was told I was going to go blind, I was the first blind man I ever got to know well, right.

And I had no blind friends. And so what did I do? I judged my potential as a blind man, and I know I’m exaggerating, but in theory, I was thinking what I can do is sell pencils from a thin cup at the local mall. Right. Instead of assessing and saying, so what is the potential of me as a blind man? And how, how can I be the best that I can be in spite of my blindness? So I’m not the blind guy that is André I’m Andrée, that happens to be blind. Okay. So I don’t want it to be defined by blindness. And so the thing is I had to learn to accept the fact that being blind was not going to be a significant barrier. Now

Jenn DeWall:

Wait. There’s a choice in there that was- sorry to interrupt you. But like right there, that choice of being and saying, you know what, I can judge it, which is what I would have done in the past. And maybe applying those past narratives to yourself of what you would have assumed someone that was blind could be capable of because you just don’t know. And you had to then make a choice to say, okay, I’m not going to apply that, like that power of choices that self-awareness, I think is really, that’s the first thing that I think is actually a struggle for most people to grab onto and just say, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I get to choose. I get to choose.

André van Hall:

Yes. Yes you do. You know what it’s? And it’s interesting. And we had briefly discussed, but as I, as I lay on that gurney at the, at the hospital, and all of a sudden I had this absolutely silly thought and I thought of a really bad joke and the nurse asks, so why are you laughing? I said, well, I thought about jokes about this. I told her, and she laughed. She said, Oh my God, you got to tell my friends. So she goes and gets the other nurses. And then the doctor wants to go, why there’s so much noise in the emergency room. Okay. And now we’re telling jokes with the doctor. And I realized that while I was going blind, by the moment, blinder, darker and darker, then my outlook had momentarily shifted from this bear to going to the light, you know? And so what I see is that when difficult change comes okay, in a brain gets confronted with that, change it, just to compare it to previous things. And when it doesn’t know how to do it, it just goes down to that cesspool of toxic emotions. And and the deeper, deeper you allow yourself to go into those, that cesspool of fear and anger and despair, and so, so forth, the harder it is to get out. And sometimes, sometimes it’s good to just wallow in self-pity. Right. I mean, you, we, we, yeah,

Jenn DeWall:

We can’t pretend that, like, things aren’t, you know, that we don’t love that, or we don’t have emotions about it. We have to give ourselves permission to grieve or experience that.

André van Hall:

Right. Right. But the thing is, I also did realize it for the briefest of moments. Okay. That there was a light up there. Okay. And there was laughter. And that I needed to give myself permission to laugh and and, and not take myself so seriously. And that is another thing that I talk about is we tend to take ourselves so, so seriously in our difficult moments, we exaggerate what is happening to us. Okay. and instead when you assess something, so you have a partner, you have a child, a grandchild that you’ve got an employee, and they’ve showed some behavioral patterns. And we take those patterns to be something that we judge them on. Okay. Based on this pattern, I believe you are this, but when we instead assess the employee, what is their potential? It’s not okay. They screwed up a couple of times, but do I see potential in this person? And how can I bring out the best in them?

André van Hall:

And I think that is part of change is, is to identify, you know, I don’t know if you’re an, but, I mean, if, if John Elway had chosen ballet, he might have been terrible at it, terrible at it. Right. And it just because he’s an athlete, that doesn’t mean that he would be a great athlete at everything in football, he excelled and it’s, how do we help people find that space where they excel? And the problem is when we judge them, we just put them down, put them down, put them down and keep lowering their self-esteem. But instead, when we assess them, we start to see, you know, we judge people that are different than us. And that is what I find is so difficult that today’s world where we have become so, so polarized.

André van Hall:

Okay. It judgment. You tell me you’re of a political party and I judge you. Okay. And judge you just because you told me that you’re either red or blue. Okay. Instead of assessing of who are you okay. And what a wonderful person are you, and you are not identified by the color that you choose to be a politician or support you are identified by the whole, you are. And we need to be able to respect different points of view and not judge each other because of, you know, I’m an immigrant. Okay. And I, I’ve never had a chip on my shoulder about being an immigrant, on the contrary. I am very proud to be an immigrant because I love, love, love this country. And I think it’s really, I don’t think it’s one of the best in the world because many countries claim the same thing, but for a place to live, I don’t want to live anywhere else. Okay. But we tend to judge immigrants. We tend to judge people from other races and stuff like that. So anyway, off of my high horse, it’s I think that the assessing is, is, is absolutely crucial and that we need to understand when we are judging it, that we, we say stop that. Okay. Start assessing instead. And that’s why it, it really in, in my book and in my talk it’s, it’s a huge chunk of what I talk about is the difference of judging and assessing.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah, I think that most people really could benefit from just even applying that to one situation at work, maybe a situation that you’re particularly frustrated by, or you don’t know what to do, maybe that’s because there’s finite judgments that need to be relaxed into curiosity. I love that. I think so many people can benefit from just slowing down and assessing, instead of judging someone, limiting their possibilities or reducing their self-confidence and going onto the next person.

Curiosity is Looking Forward

André van Hall:

And I think it ties into my curiosity theme, right. Because if you’re judging, you’re looking backwards. Okay. When you’re assessing, you’re looking forward and to look forward, you need to get curious. And I use looking on purpose, you know, and the Dalai Lama said something very interesting about said a lot of things that are very interesting, but one of the quotes that I love it says, when you’re speaking, you’re just repeating things, you already know, when you’re listening, you may learn something new. Okay. So when you’re judging people, you’re judging them based on your speaking on, on stuff that you already know that you think you know about people of a certain kind. Okay. But when you’re assessing in a sense, you’re listening, you have to hear who they are to try to find out so you can assess their potential. And so it’s, it’s, it’s a lovely quote.

Jenn DeWall:

That’s a beautiful one. And we could stand to gain so much. Every person is your teacher and your student. If we just put on our, our listening. The next piece that you, you know, you had talked about is that change is not the enemy, but how you handle it.

André van Hall:

Yeah. Yes. And you know, life is not what happens to you. It’s how you choose to handle it. So we are, I truly believe that we are the result of our choices. Okay. We make choices through our life, throughout our life. And and those are the result of those choices is who we are today. And you know, I chose to volunteer to do my military service ahead of my age group, so I could get it out of the way so I could leave the country to start my education. So that joys led me do going to bootcamp and then ending up being a waiter for the officers. Okay. And when they asked for who knows how to cook- in the, in the military, you learn that you never raise your hand, but I chose to raise my hand.

André van Hall:

And so, and then I chose to go to Germany, and then I chose to go to Paris, right? So it’s, it’s choices. If I had chosen to stay in Argentina, and my mom wanted me to be a doctor or lawyer or anything like that, anything but being a glorified waiter. And so we are a result of our choices. And that is what I think makes us who we are today. And that’s why it’s important to us that, that what happens to us is going to happen. Okay. So I talk about an environmental change, and that is, you know, the, the, all of a sudden you grow older and you get sick, or the, the, the weather kills your crop. Okay. So that that’s, that’s, that’s environmental changes. Then there is purposeful change. And purposeful change is, the one you set out to do, or somebody else set out to do to this, to disrupt your business.

André van Hall:

Okay. They, they invent something better than you did, or they it’s something, the spouse does. You have the talk, okay. So that’s purposeful change. And then there is disruptive change, right. That is a change that is so great that it disrupts something. And I’m not talking about Henry Ford introducing the car. Of course, that is disruptive. But I also talk about the insignificant thing of our own lives. That all of a sudden, somebody says, that’s at the talk. That could be a disruptive change. So it just not what happens to you as a result of that disruptive change, but how you choose to handle it.

Choose Curiosity by Shifting Your Perspective

André van Hall:

So, André, you’re going to be blind in two weeks. Okay. It’s, it’s a diagnosis. Okay. That happened to me. And, but is by blindness, by enemy. Okay. I can’t help blindness. My optic nerve died. The connection between my eyes and my brain has gone, or is a filament left that lets me see shapes and light. Okay. And so what do I gain by being angry at blindness? Okay. But I do gain a lot about how I handle that change. And so when you’re told, I’m sorry, but due to COVID, we’re going to lay you off. Okay. You are laid off, stuck, getting angry, being angry about being laid off and start to think about how you’re going to prosper and move on. What do you need to do today? Okay. To take care of your family right now. And that’s why I think it is absolutely critical that we understand that what happens to us is not the enemy, but how we choose to handle it certainly is. So, so shift your thinking, you know, in that I like the story of the two women that are in the steam room, right, and one says, son of a guns.

André van Hall:

And, you know, my ex-husband just took half of my money on the divorce. And the other one says, wow, you are so lucky. So what do you mean? I’m so lucky. She says, well, I invested all my money in the market. I lost half of it and still have my husband. So it’s a matter of perspective. Right? How do you look at it? Okay. It’s Oh, I lost half of my money. Okay. Because of my bastard husband, or I lost half of my money in the market. And man, I’m still stuck with that bastard. Right. So, so it is not what happens to you is how you choose to handle it. That makes a difference. So my, my stake again, is get curious about alternatives and start right away due to seek, how am I going to handle it? What am I going to do? Instead, I, I I was running the Adams park hotel in Denver, which is now the Sheraton downtown big 1200 room hotel. We had a convention and the hotel, it was the Future Business Leaders of America, all high school students.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh yeah. I was in that! FBLA!

André van Hall:

And so four kids to a room, a thousand rooms, 4,000 kids, running around crazy. And a fire alarm went off. Okay. So they tell me all the fire alarm went off of this floor and I run up because of course the elevators all came down. So I ran up to the 15th floor or somebody pulled the fire alarm. So I’ve got another fire department. They’re angry, kids running all over the place. Everything is going crazy. So we reset it, go back to my office, fire alarm. And now they have an actual fire that somebody set in the maid closet. Okay. The sprinklers put it out. Okay. Yes. Smoke everywhere. Water everywhere. Fire department, arson department running kids are everywhere, chaos. And I’m talking to the arson department, fire alarm goes off. Okay. So run into another place. Somebody had pulled the fire alarm and I running over to it.

André van Hall:

I said, wait a minute, wait a minute. These kids are managing you. You need to manage them. You need to stop running around, let the professionals handle the actual pull box and fires. Okay. That were happening. You need to manage the situation. So I went to my office and I called the head of the group and the chaperones, I called my security team. I had the fire department, the arson department, the police department. And we came up with a strategy, okay. Off announcing through the speakers that everybody had to go to their rooms. They’re aware, stay in their rooms. You’re going to put hall monitors. Okay. Whatever we stopped it. But the problem is, so I allowed that what was happening to me to manage me instead of me stopping and saying, okay, what do I need to do? How, how are we going to stop this?

André van Hall:

And how many times did it take for me to realize that I was handling this totally the wrong way by running through the fire instead of managing the situation. Right. And so to me, that was a very important lesson in my life. And to, to understand that you cannot allow the situations to manage you. It is your responsibility to manage the situation and the sooner that you stop and realize it. So when I went blind, I was blessed with the fact that, that I am innately curious. Okay. And I literally went the very next day. I called the company to say, okay, how am I going to use my computer as a blind man? And they told me, Oh, you need to install window eyes or jars. Okay. Was this called screen readers? Okay. Software. And it was very complex.

André van Hall:

And and then my iPhone already had built in the iPhone has built in things that reads everything to you. So I went to the Apple store and and they told me, Oh yes, every Apple product has a screen reader built in. Okay. Wow. So I went and I have said, okay, each me out to teach me how to use the Apple products. And for the next month, as I transitioned from sighted into blind, I learned how to use them. So now I am extremely adept at handling all technology and listen to any book. Okay. Whatever. But it was thanks to the fact that people like, like this guy, that came- and so one of my past presidents of the organization that I was running game that said, André, let’s go and spend some of our money to buy your devices so you can transition into buying this and that word transition into blindness is not something I’d thought of.

André van Hall:

And as I started to go as, as I was in the store and they told me, okay, here’s how you need to learn to use a cane. And I realized I needed to go to the division of vocational rehabilitation to get a caseworker. Who’s going to give me a trainer and I’m going like, no way, I don’t want a case worker. That’s the pride thing coming again. And then stopping so prideful. And there is an organization about, this is going to teach you how to do it and you better get up and do it. So those are the sorts of things that, that, that forced me to realize that what happens to you is, is inconsequential. It’s how you choose to handle it. That is consequential.

Jenn DeWall:

Absolutely. I, you know, that’s so important because it just reminds us that we can be the victim forever for as long as we want, we can play the victim, but things, you know, I say this to the students that I teach on behalf of, Crestcom like, if you’re going to be the victim, you have to truly think about that situation. That might be when you are sick and you need to ask for help when you can’t do it on your own. But many things are actually not worthy of being labeled as a victim where you are helpless and hopeless. It just requires that shift in your own mind. And I want to wrap up and close the podcast because we’re are nearing our time. Is it okay with you? If we go a little bit over,

André van Hall:

Oh, yeah. I”m disappointed, I’m having a great time!

Intellectual Humility

Jenn DeWall:

Great! I just want to make sure! You know, one of the things change is inevitable. Personal growth is optional. Good. The we’ll hit these last two points because I think I, I love this conversation and it’s truly something that I, I don’t think we slow down to even stop ourselves to remind ourselves that we can go from that passenger seat where we feel like we’re just being controlled to that driver’s seat and we can steer the car and choose where it’s going. But change is inevitable and personal growth is optional. What are your thoughts on that? That was one of the things that you shared.

André van Hall:

One of the things I wanted to go back for a moment he’s asking, asking for help is not part of the victim profile. Okay. And I think that asking for help is, is a sign of strength. And you know, and you know, you’re probably way too young to remember days before the, google maps and, and you know, directions to places, but us guys are famous for not wanting to ask for direction, right. And and, or read manuals. And so this, there is no weakness and asking for help or asking for directions. And I believe that when you go to your team and you tell your team and you say, look, this is the situation.

André van Hall:

As a matter of fact, there’s something called intellectual humility. And the Laszlo Bock, the (former) vice president of HR at Google. He looks for intellectual humility in his candidates. And intellectual humility is when you acknowledge that you don’t know something. Okay. Because there’s three areas of knowledge. Right. You know what you know, you know what you don’t know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. Okay. And those last two are the biggest, biggest area of knowledge. So what he looks for is that, okay, here’s a scenario, Madam candidate. Okay. And how would you handle it? And if the person he needed says, Oh, I would do this. And I would do that. And they are fudging it. Okay. He doesn’t want that person. He wants the person that says, wow, that, that, that would be challenging. And, but, you know, I would go to the legal department or I would go to this department or I would form a group. Okay. Or I would Google it, whatever. Right. So I think that intellectual humility and in asking for help, I encourage people to see that it shows strength. It’s, it’s my children say that one of the most memorable moments of their lives was when I asked them to help me with something rather than the other way around. And so at any rate, so what was the question you just asked?

Jenn DeWall:

I just, yeah, no, I’ll ask it again, but it, intellectual humility. I’ve never actually heard that concept before. And what a beautiful way to, you know, use that, to determine how you can work with someone or even hiring someone, or just recognizing that within ourselves, that it’s a, you know, a really strong sign of our own character. If we have intellectual humility, I just love that

André van Hall:

It realize our our limitations. Right. I can’t do this and, you know, and it’s not so interesting. So, so there are blind people, disabled people, people that are differently abled that, you know, see, I don’t want to be treated any different. All right. I, I am no different from you. I just happened to be blind. And but I am a little bit different than that, you know, and if Southwest says, you know, you can, pre-board the plane with your dog so that I can have the bulkhead seats so that I can go there and comfortably put my luggage away, knowing that I’m not holding up anybody, I’m going to take advantage of it. And so, so to me, that is not a sign of weakness is, is to take advantage of things that exist out there to make our lives a little bit easier. And I embrace those things. And to me, it’s not a sign of weakness, understanding your limitations. I think it’s important.

Change is Inevitable. Personal Growth is Optional.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. And I, that’s very powerful. It gives us, we can give ourselves permission to be able to embrace the help or ask for more, or just learn to be able to be. You don’t have to put the pressure on yourself to be everything, to everyone, know everything all the time. That’s a beautiful gift. Okay. So change is inevitable.

André van Hall:

Yes. But personal growth is optional, it’s optional. And it goes hand in hand to what we were discussing. Yeah. Right. And the change is going to happen. Okay. Are you going to draw from it or are you going to retract from it? And so it’s your choice. And it’s, it’s interesting. A a friend of mine works for a huge construction company and they were building the Mall of the Americas in Minneapolis. And they had the, a very novel way of doing the roof for the center gondola or like the center area. And the had to build a roof on the ground and then the raise, the roof to put it where it needed to be. And the foreman is there, you know, with his cigar, watching those roof going up. And my friend who was an executive for the company in the standing there trepidation of this first time, and he told him, my goodness, how things are changing. And these are some, and we tell you, change is inevitable, but personal growth is optional. Okay. And that’s where it came from. And, and I loved it because I, are you going to get stuck in the past? Okay. Because of change or are you going to choose to learn from the situation, enrich yourself and then move on.

Jenn DeWall:

Right. Which probably brings us to your final point. So thinking about how you feel. Or so you feel things around you need to change, but have you considered that the one that needs to change is you? I think that’s probably the most difficult one for many myself included. Right. I mean, I’m human- to recognize, where am I in this equation? How do I need to adjust? Why do you think people struggle with that? Why do we, why do we struggle with recognizing that we might be the one that needs to change?

André van Hall:

Because we got to where we are because of us. Okay. So we believe in us and in higher, we get in our organization, the more we believe that it’s us. Okay. That it is because of my strength because of where I am because of my vision, because of my power. I go to where I am and therefore I can’t show intellectual humility. And that’s why I have to always have the answers. I was in school, as I said, I was raised in Argentina and I went to a British all-boy boarding school. Okay. So, okay. Okay. You know what I mean, in your binders? Oh, he was in the school of magic

Jenn DeWall:

Harry Potter!

André van Hall:

Not a School of Magic for me, it was the school of misery because our sports were rugby, soccer and cricket, and I sucked at it all. Okay. And I was a nerd. I was, I was that kid, right? The one in front of the classroom, raise your hand. My uniform was always impeccable. It’s so, so forth. And I was brutally, I mean, I mean, violently bullied. And so one day I went to my father and says, dad, you’ve got to change my school. And he says, look, I can change your school. But the baggage that makes up who you are is going to go with you to the next school. And for the same reasons that they pick on you at this school, they’re going to pick on you at that school, the one who needs to change, it’s you and I was angry. Oh, I, I hated him.

André van Hall:

And I did not understand the message and he died shortly afterwards and then I never got to thank him for it. Because it was years later that I finally understood. Okay. That sometimes the one who changes you. And you say, ok Andre, so what did you change? Okay. What can you choose? Well, I am an athlete today. Okay. I am an avid cyclist, an avid skier. I was a fanatic wind surfer. And I also could have, you know, the tie had because we, as you saw, I mean, the, our uniforms, we, we had ties and blazers and whatever, and I would, you know, the, the cool kids would not have the tie all the way to the top. And their hair might be just a little bit longer than regulation and just pushing the limits. Okay. But also to be cool that kids would go out and sneak and smoke. And I never smoked in my life. There’s things that you never give in on. Okay. Zamperini in Unbroken. There’s some things that you draw a line on.

André van Hall:

You say, I’m not going to cross this line, but there are other things that you need to understand that you blame everything around you. Okay. You blame your blindness, you bring it, you blame, you get your boss or you’re getting fired, or you blame your, your neighbor for having better fertilizer and having greener grass. Okay. And incentive on a sense, you are the one who needs to say neighbor, how do you make your grass greener. What can I learn from you? You know, instead of, you know, my motto is if the grass is greener on the other side of the lawn let him mow it.

Jenn DeWall:

You don’t have to worry about it, I love that!

André van Hall:

So, you know, it is be open to the idea. You know, when I lost my job, I could blame the world for me losing my job after I went blind. Okay. But do I realize that sometimes the one who needs to change is you. And it’s did I lose my job because of other people or a man responsible, I was once divorced. I’m now married for 33 years, but it was, and I could tell you horror stories about my ex. Okay. But it does take two to tango, does it? Yeah. So we have to accept the responsibility for the things that happen around us in our lives. And and when we do that, we begin to understand that we are responsible for, for, for I, me and myself, all three of us. And so open yourself up to do introspection.

André van Hall:

And to understand that the blindness has changed who I am to a certain degree. And I am the one who needs to know, adapt to a completely new reality. And but if I’m going to succeed or not, it’s up to me. So I love the, you know, what, the 10 most powerful two letter words in the English language are? I’m going to repeat that. The 10 most powerful two letter words in the English language are: if it is to be, it is up to me. You have 10 words each are two letters. And when you put them together, they pack so much power. If it is to be, it is up to me. Okay. So it’s up to me to decide whether I’m going to continue to feel sorry for myself, or pull myself up by my bootstraps and say, I need to handle this.

André van Hall:

If I have a fight with my wife, is it, am I going to say, okay, it’s up to her to apologize. I’m not going to do anything about this. Okay. I’m not wrong. I was right in this argument. Or are you willing to say if it is to be, it is up to me. And if we all think that way, if we all willing to take responsibility. So if, if my wife and I say taking out the garbage is a 50 50 responsibility, okay. So then this is sort of 50. This is my 50, and we barely touch. But if we say taking out the trash it’s responsibility to, you know, if the one who sees that the garbage bin is full, and that now we have a hundred percent overlap, right? It’s it’s either me or you, but we were going to do it without fighting.

André van Hall:

And if it is to be, it’s up to me to decide, yeah. It’s time to take out the garbage. And when you start to have that kind of relationship, you come from a lot more strength then where it’s I barely meet , they barely touch because I think, Oh, I did it today, so now it’s your turn. So that’s why I think it is such a powerful thing.

How to Connect with Curiosity Instigator André van Hall

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. And what a powerful way to even close to our listeners is really just, you know, thinking, how could you benefit if you thought, if it is to be, it is up to me, André, how can people get in touch with you? How can, because I know that you work with organizations, you do, keynotes. I mean, obviously we’ve talked a lot about curiosity change, embracing it in 2020 and 2021. I’m sure too. It’s still bringing a tremendous amount of change that we haven’t seen before. How can people connect with you?

André van Hall:

Thank you very much price, because that’s the question. And I am André van Hall and van Hall is V A N space, H A L L. But my website is andrewvanhall.com. And in there, my book is there. Okay. My book is on Amazon. Okay. The Curiosity of Change. And but through my website is probably the easiest way and or otherwise my email is André@AndrévanHall.com. And I love hearing from people and people call me and say, Hey, my grandfather is going blind and he doesn’t know how to handle technology. So I gladly call your grandfather and have a chat with him and see if there’s any way that I can help him. So reach out. I’d love to chat with you.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much, André, for sharing your time, your experience and your vulnerability to help our leaders listening, you know, look at life a little bit differently today. To practice that curiosity. I greatly appreciate it.

André van Hall:

Well, I truly enjoyed being with you and you’re a great interviewer. Thank you. And also thank you to the magicians behind the curtain. I forgot their names.

Jenn DeWall:

Emily and Christian! We can give them a public shout out,

André van Hall:

Yes, thanks for inviting me. I really enjoyed it.

Jenn DeWall:

Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I hope you leave this feeling inspired and empowered that you can go out and truly be curious in your life. And that curiosity can open up new possibilities and choices for you to succeed, to develop others and many other things. If you want to connect with André, or if you want him to speak to your organization about change, he does many keynotes. He works with a lot of organizations and you can connect with him at his website, AndréVanHall.com. And as he said, don’t hesitate to reach out. Even if you have questions about anything, he would love the conversation. And if you enjoyed this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, please share it with your friends. Share with someone that you know, could benefit from hearing that message. And of course, leave us a review on your favorite podcast, streaming service.