Episode 2: Trends in Talent Management with Kathleen Quinn Votaw

In Episode 2 of our podcast, our host, Jenn DeWall speaks with talent management expert Kathleen Quinn Votaw. She is the president and founder of Talentrust. Talentrust is revolutionizing how companies find, keep and grow great people. After nearly two decades of earning accolades in the staffing industry, Kathleen determined that traditional models don’t always serve the best interest of clients, especially rapidly growing companies. She has vowed to disrupt the stagnant staffing and recruiting industry, and she is here to share with us the Talentrust 2019 hiring guide. The 2019 hiring guide highlights six key areas that you as a business leader and manager can focus on to overcome talent scarcity and find the right people. These key areas include Strategic HR, Culture and Brand, Engagement, Technology, Recruiting Imperatives and Social Enterprise. Join us for this informative episode and find out what might be missing from your recruitment and retention strategy.


Jenn :   00:54    Kathleen, I’m so happy to have you here. On Crestcom’s The Leadership Habit podcast. You are one of our expert faculty members that supported our February module, “Take Charge of Talent Management, and you really are an expert with a deep understanding of what companies need to do to be able to hire and retain their talent. I’m curious for those that don’t know much about you and your background; you’re the founder and CEO of a company called Talentrust. Tell us what you do.

Kathleen :    01:21    So Talentrust is a human capital consulting company. And what we do is we help clients throughout the country solve their people puzzles. Our first step is to go in with a gap analysis and make sure we diagnose the issues that are causing them pain. Sometimes it’s cultural, sometimes value, sometimes it’s engagement, sometimes it’s strategic recruiting. So we really focused on that diagnosis so we can really fix what’s broken. I’m also an author of a book called Solve the People Puzzle. And I’m also a keynote speaker.

Jenn :    01:56    And you know, right now, especially in the U.S., but also globally, talent management is a challenge. It’s hard for companies to find good people and actually get them into the organization. It’s one of the biggest struggles. What have you seen going on right now in the world of talent management?

Kathleen :    02:13    Since some of the key trends that we highlight in our 2019 talent imperatives is that retention is becoming almost more important than recruitment. It is so important to retain those people who are building your brand, building your culture, serving your clients right now. And we have some techniques that we can train our clients on and obviously your clients as well on how to focus on retention, but retention is becoming as important as recruitment. And then the second key trend is that it’s about them. It’s not about you; the candidates find you versus you finding them. And so you need to have some kind an employment brand so they can find you. Because most companies aren’t Google, Marriott, Zappos- they don’t have a household brand name, and they need to know what you stand for in order to find you because the best out there are working. So what’s your message to them that they’re going to find you? So those are two key trends along with the rise of the individual. Really, people can choose where they want to go. If you’re good at anything, sales, marketing, operations, accounting, finance- and then you name it- engineering, you can name that job, and you can go where you want to go. So it’s really the individual is in the driver’s seat

Jenn :    03:43    Which- if you’re an individual looking for a new career, a new opportunity, that’s really exciting.

Kathleen :    03:49    Absolutely.

Jenn :    03:50    That concept of the rise of the individual is so interesting. You know, I think part of what you said earlier is that really companies need to start focusing their strategy on retention. How do we keep our employees? Because no more are people feeling inclined to necessarily stay if they feel like they’re not getting the opportunities for growth or that they may not have the salary that they want. There are many reasons that people choose to stay within an organization, but also many reasons for how they choose to leave. So it’s really interesting to see that pivot in the way that companies look at talent management. We have to try and retain our good people before they take all their knowledge and walk it into someone else’s organization.

Kathleen :    04:31    Really, Jenn- that’s key. And there’s so much choice right now. There’s a choice for the individual, and that’s why we focus on this key trend of the rise of the individual because they have a lot of choices.

Jenn :    04:45    And you’re 2019 hiring guide. You had mentioned a challenge, and that’s especially impacting companies in the U.S. But also global organizations. They’re experiencing what you called talent scarcity. What is talent scarcity?

Kathleen :    05:00    The scary statistic, Jenn, is that 6.2 million people are looking for jobs, which sounds like a good number until you realize that there are 6.9 million positions open. So it’s really an inventory problem. There are not enough people for the jobs that companies need to grow and achieve their objectives, especially in manufacturing, construction, any of the trades- we have made trade work- or working with your hands- not too sexy. And we need to make that kind of welders and construction workers and electricians and plumbers, all these things that we all need. We need to make that sexy again. It’s cool to work with your hands. My mom and dad sat at the kitchen table with me when I was growing up saying you have to get a college education. You have to. You must get a college education. Well, I agree that a college education is a great thing, but I a high school education for somebody who doesn’t aspire to go to college and then to go to vocational school and working a trade is a wonderful thing as well. People can make a lovely living in the trades, but we’ve made it taboo. Administrators have made it taboo in academia. And the kitchen table at your home has made it taboo as well. So we’re in a real crisis mode, and it’s going to last for a long time.

Jenn :    06:42    I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin and my father was in the trades, and I had many friends that have had and continue to have really successful careers in the trades. And I’m actually really envious of them because they don’t have any student loan debt now. And another great perk of looking at a trade is that there’s a better return on your time investment. I’m with you on encouraging people that this is a great career path. Trades are a great opportunity, they are lucrative, and they’re versatile. I feel like also within a trade, you get a lot of different exposure to many different aspects of the business and there’s a lot of diversity within your role. Seeing how many of my friends were able to create success in trades, I can totally see why it’s something that we need to make not taboo again.

Jenn :    07:33    So Kathleen, we talked about talent scarcity and the rise of the individual where top talent is able to pick where they want to work. How can a company overcome these challenges? You know, in your 2019 hiring guide, you spoke about six key areas that organizations can focus on, and I was hoping that we could walk through these so other people can understand what they can do if they’re facing talent scarcity challenges based on that impact of the rise of the individual.

Kathleen :    08:03    Absolutely. Jenn and you know, we have a ton of resources on our website too, but I’ll walk through all of those key takeaways and the talent imperative for 2019 there’s a lot of things to focus on. Remember I’m a 30 year veteran of this recruitment human capital industry. So for your listeners, take away one key thing and do something different from the six initiatives and you’ll be ahead of the pack. So our first initiative that we’ve focused on is strategic HR, and we’ve been mean to HR for far too long. Jenn, think about it. We, you know, they do payroll, they do benefits, we blame them if we don’t have the right people, we blame them if people aren’t being paid enough, we dump things on them. Harvard Business Review wrote an article that we should blow up HR. Fast Company wrote an article saying we hate HR. “Stop It!” is my mantra.

Kathleen :    09:05    Start putting strategic HR at the table. Make its report into the CEO, the owner, the president, whatever you call yourself, start putting your people first. We talk about how people are our most important asset. Well, let’s start putting them first and showing them that they’re our most important asset because you can have all of the initiatives and innovation in the world, but if you don’t have people to execute on it, nothing’s going to get done. So we have to look at HR as more of a strategic function versus an administrative function. And today it’s highly regarded as an administrative function in most middle market companies, in most middle market companies. So they need some training. They need to- you need to sit down with your HR people and understand where they want to spend their time, how they want to spend their time because we know that people will do great work when they love what they’re doing.

Kathleen :    10:07    I got a call from a company in L.A., sometime in December- at the end of the year. And the owner said to me, Kathleen, something’s not quite right. Something’s not working. And what we found out is that their HR leader hated recruitment. That could really be very problematic if you need to bring in 65 people in a year which this company does. You know it’s a very important piece to their organization. So get really clear on what you need in a strategic HR leader and get really clear that they align with your values. So that’s, that’s message number one for us.

Jenn :    10:47    Yeah, that’s right. HR isn’t just about payroll, and my experience working with some organizations and HR, there’s so much more that HR can do. They can contribute to that overall culture. You know, in HR- I would say they do a lot -and it’s time that we expand the way that we look at their functionality. It’s no longer just looking at HR as just simple functions. It is understanding how they fit into that big picture and the organization’s short and long-term growth goals. You know, if we don’t have an HR department that’s going to focus on the people who are at your organization, who else is going to work on keeping your people right? You might have a great leader that’s doing it on their own, but not every leader even has that as a developed skill set to understand how to really focus on retention and engagement. You mentioned a little bit about culture, which is also the second key area. Tell me a little bit about culture and brand and why this is the second separate key area of focus.

Kathleen :    11:52    The second key imperative we want you to focus on is culture. Culture is your employment brand. We believe it’s foundational to have good systems and processes around your people. So I talked a little bit in our introduction about knowing who you are so people can find you. Culture is actually the sum total of your values, your attitudes, your beliefs and your traditions and how people experience you. And culture became really sexy in 2015, but nobody has a process around it. They don’t know how to measure it. They don’t know how to inspect it. And so there are some great tools out there that you can use that can automate really, where is your culture right now? So you can work toward improving it and building the right organization. Also, your brand is important because people can’t find you. I mentioned that earlier. It’s so important for people to be able to find great companies that are doing great work. So some examples of that are, companies- like small little companies here who are doing innovative work that people can’t find on the internet, they don’t even know that they’re hiring. So it has this close circle to them, and they tend to hire friends and family. But there are so many great people out there. I was presenting yesterday to an organization, and one of the owners has a small company, only 12 people, and he is scared to actually hire anybody who’s not a friend or a family member because he doesn’t have the processes and systems. Gallup suggests that only 27% of workers are actually engaged and believe in the values of their organization. So, that’s a terrible statistic, right?

Kathleen :    13:49    And people will look up your reputation on Glassdoor, Yelp, Google, you know people put things out there- and think of why- when you go to a restaurant, why do you post something on Yelp or TripAdvisor because you either had an amazing experience or you’ve, had an awful experience. It’s not, oh, it was good. It’s usually polarizing. So, we now have reputations, and we don’t even know it. There are companies that we go into, and they are not attending to their Glassdoor reputation or their Google reputation, and they can actually take a proactive approach on how people experience the organization. So that’s what we mean when we look at culture and brand and caring about your people, making sure that you care about their whole person, not just their skills that they bring to your company. You hire a whole person and guess what? You hire their family too. Start talking to them about what they need in their life. I have, a woman who works with me and she takes Wednesday every single week, and she calls it her “Ziggy Day” -she’s a grandma, and she does not want to miss out on being with him. So she works four days a week, very hard for our organization. Wednesdays are sacred to her. She takes family time and so I have another woman on my team who also works three-quarter time. She works four days a week, and she takes Fridays to be with her two children. So listen to your people and what they need to be happy, healthy and whole.

Jenn :    15:37    Yeah. See your people as people, you know. It’s something that I think, you know, some companies still have that tendency to say work is work. So shut down any emotion, any inkling that you have a personal life outside of here and walk in our door and then be prepared to hustle and do what you need to do. But when we treat them like that and in a vacuum, we’re ignoring everything else that’s happening. And I think that’s where you see that rise of diversity and inclusion being a very important piece, too. We need to talk about things that are impacting our people outside of work. Whether that’s at the personal and familial level or whether that’s at the current events level.

Kathleen :    16:18    Absolutely.

Jenn :    16:20    It’s interesting, it seems so basic, but I feel like we wouldn’t have issues with retention or engagement if we actually saw the person as a person.

Kathleen :    16:32    Think about it, we set up an adversarial relationship between employers and employees in this country. And you know, my subject matter expertise is, you know, people in the U.S., we don’t work outside of the U.S. at this point, but we’ve set up an adversarial relationship. We don’t tell each other the truth. We hide things. We try to just get by. So the more the employer takes the lead and starts having those critical conversations, the more the employee will trust and open up. This is not a onetime fix. You don’t walk into a team meeting and say, okay, tell me the truth. They have to believe it, so they adopt it. So start modeling it. That’s my message to the listeners. Start modeling transparent, trustworthy relationships with your employees.

Jenn :    17:28    Yeah, that walks the walk, the person that you would want them to be or that you would think about how you would want to be treated. Exactly. You know, it’s great, and that’s definitely a topic that I could go on and on about because I love what we can really focus on that engagement. But I know you have a third area of focus that companies can work on to overcome the talent scarcity and that they’re facing right now within talent management. What’s the third area is engagement. I touched on it a little bit, but so many employees are not engaged in what you’re trying to do as an employer, and there’s two really good, there are two really main takeaways they want people to take from this section. I mentioned retention is just as important as recruitment. Start using your marketing material to have some internal dialogue with your employees about why they should stay with you. We call it re-recruiting, and we adopted that from the CEO of Zillow. He believes that you should be recruiting your people every day because they have so much choice. There is so much choice out there, why do they continue to choose you? So take some of your marketing material and repurpose it to your people. So they know a big client that you signed on it, a project that you’re working on, some financial funding that you’re looking to philanthropic outreach.

Kathleen :    18:50    Make sure your people know who you are, what you stand for, what you’re doing, what’s coming so they can get excited about their future. And the second key takeaway is the people who are with you. There’s a trend that’s been established and some companies, but they’re called stay interviews. So really understanding why people stay with you because you know, if you’re aware, you know, they have a choice. So for somebody in my organization, I would really want to know why they continue to choose to work for us versus going and having other experiences because the average lifecycle of an employee is about 2.4 years right now. So two and a half years. So people are very open to change- the employees, the candidates, the job seekers are, are quite bullish right now. And they know if it’s not working somewhere, they can go somewhere else.

Kathleen :    19:50    So it’d be great for owners to know, presidents, CEOs, again, whatever you call yourself, why people stay with you and what kinds of things might cause them to leave. So it’s really important to have those critical conversations. And last, make sure your benefits are as robust as you can afford. Every company- you know, we work in the middle market, and that’s anywhere from about 10 million to a billion in revenue, and there’s a big diversity in benefits and what you can afford to give people. So be as generous as you possibly can. One thing that people love is the gift of time. I wrote an article once called, “Go to the School Play.” And I heard one of the founders of Ogilvy speak and she said, “you know what? You’re never going to be remembered for what you did at work, but your kids are going to remember you. And they’re going to say you were at every sporting event and at the school play”. And you know, that’s really who you are. Work is what you do. So that’s a great article to download from our website. You know, go to the school play, the work can wait. I say to my people all the time. We’re not curing cancer. Go do what you need to do with your family. We’re doing great work, but your family comes first.

Jenn :    21:19    Well, when you give people time, we all know that life is short and at some moments in our lives we have that reminder, and it’s more noticeable than others, especially when we lose a loved one or have a relationship change. But again, you know, going back to that, treat people like people concept, recognize that and give them time to create meaning in their life, to be happy. And that benefit of being able to give them the time is that they come back to you, and they feel that they’re more engaged because you see them and they want to work harder because they feel they were able to feel like their purpose fueled their happiness and filled their time outside with the things that matter.

Kathleen :    22:01    You’re spot on there, Jenn.

Jenn :    22:03    Let’s move on to area number four. Technology.

Kathleen :    22:07    Oh, in technology- and full disclosure/disclaimer, I’m not a technology person. However, technology is becoming well-used in the human capital space. Artificial Intelligence is starting to help companies select people. Virtual reality is helping people train people. I heard a Ted Talk in Denver, TedX in Denver. They’re using virtual reality to train inmates on what it looks like on the outside if they’ve been incarcerated for a while. And the gentleman who was speaking as a mental health professional and he said, you know, it’s been amazing. One of the inmates, he’ll never forget, put the virtual reality on. And he started to cry, and he said, you know, I forgot what it felt like to be free. And so virtual reality is helping people train on machinery. Also on welding. There’s a great company here in Colorado and, and they couldn’t find welders. There’s a shortage as we talked about earlier of people in the trade. So you know what they did? They opened a welding training school. They just weren’t going to take it anymore. They put their destiny in their own hands. They started a welding school, they took one of their buildings and repurposed it. And we’re using virtual reality to train people on welding. So Virtual Reality is going to huge in training cause you can simulate what you want people to do. So it’s super cool. So I know enough to be dangerous. And then analytics, like measuring things, there are great little tools out there like Amplify, that helps measure engagement. TINYPulse is a really nice integrated tool that you can use to keep the pulse on your company’s culture. You can do Cheers for Peers. There’s a suggestion box, and you can benchmark it against the rest of the industry.

Kathleen :    24:21    There’s also applicant tracking tools. They can also act as a CRM tool for the candidate population. So there is so much out there that is low cost- not no cost because a lot of these are software-as-a-service (SaaS) opportunities. So it is an investment, but it’s a very wise investment to get ahead of this talent scarcity issue. So you can really have the statistics and the data to show your executive team what you’re doing. So the technology is really fun. It’s really fun, and it’s enabling us to be more data-driven about the human capital space.

Jenn :    25:06    It’s very interesting about the way that companies and organizations are using artificial intelligence for training. I had no idea that it was being used in that way. So that’s really exciting to think. You know, I’ve seen it done before in the sense of doing a simulation of a day in the life where it’s about a four-hour simulation. And it might be someone that accompany, is considering maybe promoting to manager or director or a c -suite level and they put them through a simulation to see how they would handle the challenges that will come up. And that part is really interesting. But I love just really how you can embrace that to help your training needs. Training is so important to everything that we’ve talked about so far. The other thing that I’ve seen companies do with technology is the virtual interview. You know, where they’re able to have a screen, and they give you a question, and you have two minutes to formulate an answer and then two minutes to give your answer. And it’s great because it saves the time of the individuals interviewing and they can see what this person would be like and whether they would want to move forward and bring them in for an in-person interview. You know, it’s surreal. If you even look back 10 or 15 years ago, we were still using paper applications. Okay. Maybe a little bit longer than that, but it was definitely in my recent history, and you know, everything that we do now, it’s just, it’s so much different.

Kathleen :    26:29    Yes. Acknowledge and embrace technology, and it will help you be better. It’s great.

Jenn :    26:35    I think the one thing I would say- and this is probably a grievance that for the companies that are still using that process too-for their online applicants systems to have an individual upload their resume, but then they still require you to enter the exact same information that’s on your resume into their processor into their screen. I think it feels like a time waster. It can definitely feel like it’s redundant and it extends that process of actually applying, which can feel really daunting for some people. And it can make you think like, if are there limitations in the organization’s technology? Do I really want to work here? And so, you know, again, technology can really help to alleviate concerns and help us moving in the right way, whether that’s in our applicants, whether that’s in how we interview people. So many different ways. I agreed. So let’s move into the fifth area recruiting imperatives. What does recruiting imperative mean for the people that have not heard that phrase before?

Kathleen :    27:44    So it’s really important that recruiting should be treated as a sales process within your organization. And that is a huge paradigm shift for people, Jenn. They don’t really understand that they need to build a process around getting people engaged and interested in the company or they’re never going to find them. So I talked to you earlier about the employment brand. That’s the first step to your recruiting imperatives. And then the second step is lead generation. Where are the candidates going to come from? How are you going to fill the top of the funnel with people who are culturally adept at working with you and also have the skills to work with you. And then third, engaging them in some way over time. What we tend to do is it’s a one and done. So if I want to work with you, Jenn, and I think you’re a great candidate for our company, I’ll give you a call if you don’t call me back, game over, right? Well, you have to touch people just like you do in the sales process. It’s Marketing 101, and people don’t really look at you if they’re gainfully employed until they get 8 to 12 touches. They have to know about your company. They have to understand who you are in order to engage. Because most of these people are gainfully employed. You heard the numbers earlier. I’ll give you an example. One of our clients that we’re doing work for out in Minneapolis, St. Paul, one of our recruiting team members had to touch a candidate 14 times before he would take an interview with our clients.

Does your recruiting department have that kind of rigor to reach out 14 times to the same candidate? And ultimately this person was hired and is a great fit for the organization, but it took 14 communications touches to do so. And recruiting systems, unfortunately, are still hiring people that fail about half the time. And we have to be really careful to hire for the culture- attitudes, values, beliefs- first. “Culture trumps everything” as my friend, Gustavo Grodnitzky says, he wrote a great book, called Culture Trumps Everything. And it does, because when you think about why you let people go, it’s not usually because of their skills. It’s because of their behaviors, and people get terminated or separate from the company because they don’t fit the values, the attitudes, and the beliefs. So recruiting is a sales process and we have a six-step process that we bring our clients through. We teach them, and we actually manage it for them. So there’s a lot of rigor around it. There’s technology involved, but we have to get out of the old post and pray and hope that people will come. That’s not Field of Dreams. They’re not just going to come if you post a job.

Jenn :    30:54    Well, you touched on it earlier, about the brand. I know that many of my friends that are looking for opportunities or for people that I’ve worked with, really one of the first steps that they’re taking beyond finding that job, is to go right over to Glassdoor to understand and see what that organization’s culture looks like. You know, to the extent that you as an organization embrace Glassdoor. I think you can really use it to attract higher caliber and quality candidates because as a top performing candidate, one of the things that you want is culture. As you know, career coaching. When I do that with my clients, the main thing that my millennial clients want is a culture. They want that right culture where they can fit in, there are opportunities, and they are jumping into Glassdoor and if they’re seeing that the culture that you have is horrendous or that there are no growth opportunities or maybe that they don’t offer trainings, they’ll just kind of walk away. They don’t even want to bother with it upfront if they’re seeing that it’s not going to meet their needs. So on the flipside of that, is when you’re in HR, I also think that you have to be looking at Glassdoor to understand what your current employees are seeing. Do you know what I mean? I know that whether it’s someone posting about their current salary and how they can be destructive to someone if they see that someone is making more than they are and they’re still employed with you. So I think paying attention to Glassdoor can just be a great way to be able to understand how people are seeing your brand and how people are experiencing your culture. And you can use this as data to make different changes.

Kathleen :    32:36    Glassdoor is a great tool, but it’s not the only tool. Google also has reviews, Indeed has reviews. So don’t just focus on Glassdoor. It’s one of many that have surveyed your company and your culture from a candidate perspective to get involved in the discussion. But one thing I want to make sure you and your listeners understand, Jenn, is that 32% of candidates will choose a better culture over money. They will take 10% less compensation to work in a culture that they believe they fit and they will thrive in. Everybody wants cultural alignment. They don’t want to work for somebody that they don’t want to work for, and they’re not going to just- money’s like the fourth or fifth criteria for people when they’re taking a job- it’s culture, it’s attitudes, behaviors, beliefs, the type of work you’re doing, it’s purpose. So get real clear on that and then the money will come. But just get clear on that first.

Jenn :    33:40    No, that’s a great point. Just focusing on an understanding of what they’re looking for and what they want to see and how they’re making their decisions on whether or not to go with you and especially now. I think it is a pivot from where they were historically just with the cost, you know, let’s move on to your final point. The social enterprise. This is the sixth area to focus on. What does social enterprise mean for someone or a candidate looking for a new job?

Kathleen :    34:09    So I first was introduced to social enterprise through an organization called the Association for Corporate Growth. And every December we celebrate companies that- and it’s also ACG Global- it’s a 15,000 person member organization, and they celebrate companies that purposefully give back. So think of Toms shoes. Every time you buy a pair of shoes from Toms shoes, they give a free pair of shoes to a child who has none of Ben and Jerry’s, Ben and Jerry’s. A wonderful little company. Two guys are making ice cream. All it is is ice cream. But for every pint of ice cream they sell, they give to children. They give donations to all kinds of charities. So it’s really integrating your social impact with what you’re trying to do as a business. So engineering companies could be aligned with Rotary International, that’s all about clean water.

You know, there are so many ways you can kind of take your social values and work alongside your financial goals and your business goals and start telling people what you do, what you stand for. And a lot of times business owners give graciously but never talk about it. In this talent scarcity environment, it is a marketing tool to tell people what you do and what you stand for. I’ll give you an example for my company; we support Goodwill Industries because it’s about the dignity of a job for everybody. We also support organizations like Girls Inc. and Colorado Women’s Chamber of Commerce because we really believe in women leading alongside men every day in every position and really closing that gender gap and inequality. So that’s what we stand for. That’s why we do what we do. What do you do? What’s your message? What are you embracing socially? It’s okay to own it and talk about it because those people who are aligned with those social values are going to seek you out. And wouldn’t that be groovy?

Jenn :    36:28    Then you feel like your work has an added layer of meaning.

Kathleen :    36:30    Absolutely. Yeah. No, you’re spot on there, Jenn.

Jenn :    36:33    I too am helping to contribute to Goodwill as your organization does. I too am contributing to supply someone with a pair of shoes or with Warby Parker, a pair of glasses. I love the Ben & Jerry donates based on their ice cream sales because I’m obsessed with that ice cream. So, you know, now it’s even greater to know that every time I buy that pint that I’m doing good. You know, I’m joking, it’s not an extreme level of good, but I at least know that there a contribution that I’m making. And you know as an employee, it’s even more important. You really do get to feel that you’re a part of creating social change.

Kathleen :    37:09    Right! Even if it’s a small part, even being a little small part, people really dig that. I mean, it’s not just business to consumer organizations, it’s B to B organizations too. So you know, just give it some thought because it’s something that could really help distinguish you in this very, very tight market with talent.

Jenn :    37:30    Thank you so much for your time today, Kathleen. Do you have any last thoughts or insights that you want to share with our listeners?

Kathleen :    37:37    No, I really appreciate this opportunity. I love Crestcom international and thank you for having me. And please visit our website. I’m sure Jenn will tell you more about that. And we look forward to sharing more resources with you over time.

Outro:    37:55    Thank you for tuning in to our interview with Talentrust, CEO and founder Kathleen Quinn Votaw. For additional resources on talent management, or to download Talentrust 2019 Hiring Guide that we discussed today. Head over to Talentrust.com\resources that is Talentrust with one t in the middle. Or head over to our show notes and follow our link.


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