Strategic Self-Awareness with Leadership and Career Strategist, Lillian Davenport

Strategic Self-Awareness with Leadership and Career Strategist, Lillian Davenport, SPHR, SHRM- SCP, Certified Coach

Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Lillian Davenport to talk about the power of strategic awareness. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Lillian. Lillian Davenport, SPHR, SHRM-SCP is a principle at End View Solutions and is a change catalyst. She realizes that the most significant yet challenging person one must lead is oneself. And that leadership begins with strategic self-awareness. Lillian’s career spans people in organizational development experience as a human resources leader at JP Morgan, Chase American International Group and Woodforest National Bank. Today, she works with leaders to build engaging work environments, assessing their leadership effectiveness and implementing strategies to elevate their people, leadership and business results impact. And I hope you enjoy our conversation as Lilian and I talk about the power of strategic awareness.

Full Transcript Below:

Jenn DeWall:  I am so excited to be sitting down with Lilian! Lilian, thank you so much for joining The Leadership Habit. We’re happy to have you today.

Lillian Davenport:  Thank you, Jenn. Very happy to be here.

Meet Lillian Davenport, Leadership and Career Strategist

Jenn DeWall:  Now we’re gonna be talking about a topic that we’ve actually never brought on the podcast before: the power of strategic awareness or self-awareness, and that’s gonna be the focus of today. But before we dive into that conversation, I’m so excited to hear your position on this and what we can do to improve our self-awareness or strategic awareness. Could you just go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you even become interested in this? How did you come to be where you are today?

Lillian Davenport: Well, Jenn, that is an excellent question. I’m going to start with, you probably hear that twang. That is a Mississippi twang. And I made it to Texas as soon as I could after graduating from college, but I still have the twang <laugh> and so a little bit. So you will understand why this topic is so important to me. I am the youngest of nine children. My parents were laborers and they taught us to work hard, and keep your head down. You will get ahead. And they taught us what they knew to tell us at the time. But the part that as I got in corporate after I moved from Mississippi to the bright lights of Houston being the first one in my family to actually graduate from college, even though there were some that went before me, but three have come behind me and graduated, and a fourth one is working on her degree.

She happens to be the oldest. One of the family who’s working on her degree right now that’s so they told us what they knew, but there was something that they didn’t know to tell us. And that was more about those relationships that we would need to build and how we would need to navigate the corporate environment because they hadn’t been corporate people working in corporate. So they didn’t know that even though they were very good at relationships, that’s not something that was at the forefront of mind of telling us. So, you know, being the first kid who really has had a long corporate career in my family, I had to learn some things the hard way. And I just don’t think that we all have to learn everything the hard way. So that’s why this topic is so important to me.

Jenn DeWall:  Well, and I love that you bring that up, that it wasn’t something, and I know the background of your parents, maybe it wasn’t on their top of mind or of how to navigate that. But I also think that, and I’m not sure I graduated college a while ago, but I’m not sure how well even universities are still doing with maybe that preparation and helping people truly understand how they can successfully navigate corporate cultures or working cultures in general. So I think this topic is so important. Because I know, you know, it didn’t come from my parents and of a similar story. It didn’t come from my parents. It didn’t come from the university. It came from failing.

Lillian Davenport:  I know what you mean.

What is Strategic Self-Awareness?

Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. And of course like, so we want to help people with that. So what do you mean by, you know, we’re talking about the power of strategic awareness, what do you mean by strategic awareness?

Lillian Davenport:  Strategic awareness is really when we have fully knowing who we are, usually we can look at it from two different perspectives, and I love the way that Dr. Tasha Eurich, who is an organizational psychologist, has really coined it. You have the internal self-awareness, and you have the external self-awareness. We’re usually pretty good at the internal self-awareness. And that is having a pretty good understanding of what our values are and what our passions and our goals are. And what we see as our strengths, as well as our weaknesses, even though we may not want to own those at the time. The part that is the, and, and the conjunction for, for that being fully aware, and that strategic awareness is also having an understanding of how others see us, how we impact others, the interactions that we have with others and how they perceive us. So it’s that joint look is what we need. We can lean into our strengths, but we also need to understand what others are seeing as well.

Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. And I think, I mean, from where I sit, I feel like it’s often one of the more interesting pieces that people think, you know, I think I know how people perceive me. I think I know how my actions impact others. And I honestly, I love asking the question how to build self-awareness because I still think there’s a big gap. I don’t know if it’s a lack of ownership and wanting to hear what people are saying about them, or just maybe being a little naive. So what are some of the kind of like common traps that people might fall into as it relates to building that strategic awareness?

Lillian Davenport:  Well, it, it really begins where you started a bit it could be a little bit nerve-wracking when you start thinking about what do others really think about me and their interactions with me. Some of it is that we can very well for ourselves be able to see, I can see what’s in Jenn, that I think Jenn needs to improve. But what I won’t see is what Lillian needs to improve. Because I am probably going to be a little bit harder on someone else and being able to point out fear, they need improvements rather than for myself. And even when someone tells me, I may not listen, because that doesn’t resonate with me. That doesn’t sit that that is something that it, that either I’m really strong with. And it truly is a strength or on the, the other side, that is something that, yeah, I probably need to work on more. But it might be something that I think I’m really strong in, but others do not see that. So it’s, it’s very easy that sometimes we can see the big speck in someone else. And we totally miss that plank that’s sitting in our own eye and we don’t see it. And that’s human nature.

What Happens When We Lack Self-Awareness?

Jenn DeWall:  <Laugh> well, it’s so important. I mean, and I mean, this it’s hard. It’s hard. I, I mean, I’m in both of our professions, it’s, I’ll speak for myself, but it’s hard to get some of that feedback, right? I mean, I’m not gonna say it’s not discouraging sometimes, or it’s not, you know, doesn’t feel defeated, but if you don’t hear it, then it’s like, you can’t do anything to fix it. And I think of, I will always think of just this example of an individual that was a self-described people-person. And I just was still like, you were the furthest thing from a people person, but yet they really, truly in their heart of hearts– self-awareness– believe that that was their strength. Even though from the outside, looking in, that was actually probably one of their biggest detriments is not understanding how to do that. And just watching that play out. And that is the example that I would give to talk about. Why, what Lillian’s talking about right now is so important is that people might think that they are more aware than what they actually are <laugh> and that impacts the team. And, but I don’t even know how do you give people feedback on that when they are really resistant when they’re like that Teflon man, and you tell ’em something and it just drops off.

Lillian Davenport:  Well, you know, one of the things, Jenn, and the reason why I’m so passionate about this, if we can get listeners to really begin to do the introspection, then we leave the room to invite feedback who wants someone walking up to them and ask and telling them, let me tell you what you need to know. What we might need to do is we’re in that particular situation that we do really want to give insight, ask for permission. Would you mind if I share something with you, an observation, and if they are open to it, hopefully, it can be received, but sending that message and communicating it in such a way that it is objective, not attacking the person because nobody wants to be attacked either, but just an observation. As much as I remember when I was early in my career, I was one of those heads down.

People heads down, go in, get the work done. Because remember I said earlier, that’s what my parents had told me that I needed to keep my head down, do exceptional work, always going to deliver exceptional work. But what I didn’t realize is that what others would see from my, having my head down is that I was probably not as social as I should have been. And that could eventually that would have eventually hurt my career by just being heads down. I can produce great products, but that doesn’t mean necessarily that I would be looked to be moved up in the organization. So that’s another dimension of awareness. Not always a bad thing, you’re doing something good, but it may not necessarily help you in the direction that you want to move and you don’t know why you’re not moving and no one has told you.

Leadership Challenges That Require Strategic Awareness

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. That’s, I mean, and that’s so important too, because you’re talking about the origin of so many of our behaviors and why we show up the way that we do. You talked about your parents saying, you know, do excellent work and it’s okay to put your head down as long as you’re doing a great job that sometimes we have to give ourselves permission to rethink and relearn some of these things because they could cause the negative con consequences or prevent our mobility in the way that we want it to. So from your perspective, you know, we’re talking about strategic awareness, what are the traps or challenges that you see that leaders can have when they’re leading?

Lillian Davenport:  You know, Jan, that is an excellent question. And I wish I had known this 30 years ago, I would not have had so much tissue on my shoes and no one told me about it. One of them is that believe it or not. And you may have heard about this, that double bind in the Catch 22. And I think Catalyst did an article on this in 2007. And what that is really referring to is that there is sometimes an implicit bias that we have about the behaviors that men and women should display. And when we’re not aware of that, we may not know how we’re coming across. So, for instance, society. Just think about society. Generally, we, as women, should be seen as being nice and kind, considerate and quiet and not talking too much. Being collaborators there. However, we take, and we use those and, and take them into the workplace and into our careers.

Conversely, when we look at what behaviors that men have, which are also equated to strong leadership behaviors, being assertive, being decisive, being strong, and problem solvers, you know, having toughness can get things done well, when we think about that, if we are in the workplace and that’s why I say, I wish I had known this myself, I probably, I won’t say I’m an aggressive person, but it would come across as aggressive when I think I’m merely being assertive or I am by my being assertive and directive and being a problem solver, that’s stepping out of the norm, that’s associated with female behavior. And when we step out of that norm, I love the way that Catalyst said it, “We are damned if we do and we’re doomed if we don’t.” So if we step out of that norm and we’re showing more of those direct behaviors, what are associated with strong leadership behaviors as women, we may not necessarily be liked as well.

Yeah. So, if we stay in the typical norm that we have for women of being quiet and warm and nurturing we may be considered to be pushovers a bit, so we’re not as effective in our roles. So I totally get that article when it says that we’re damned if we do and we’re doomed if we don’t. So we are having to know how we’re coming across, how that interaction is being received by others, knowing the situation and really determining how do we need to adjust a bit, but you can’t, we can’t do that. If we are not aware that something is going on in the first place,

Strategic Self-Awareness and Biases

Jenn DeWall: Right? I mean, I have a follow-up question because I too feel, you know, I’m a direct woman. I likely come across as aggressive, even though similarly, I think I’m being assertive. But what piece around this self-awareness and strategic awareness, I know that there’s a level of responsibility and accountability that we have to manage our actions and the impact that they have on others. But what about the other side of it? The people that are observing and evaluating and judging that because I, what I wish in my own world would be that we are more receptive to these, to what this looks like to people showing up as exactly who they are. Not putting people into these boxes. And so maybe that brings in the case of why we need allyship when it relates to this. I know this is a sidebar on that, but I’m curious about what your perspectives are on, you know, the audience too, and being willing to challenge their own paradigms of what a man or a woman should look like. Damned if you do, doomed, if you don’t.

Lillian Davenport: Jenn that is, that leads us to really, to where we are today. I think the pandemic really put a, a twist on everything is that those nurturing behaviors have become something that we really need to have in place, that everyone is seeing the benefit of it of being kind and compassionate that’s needed in order to get things done. But the, the honest thing is on each one of us, because if we look at it, all of us have biases. I don’t know if there is one person who walks this earth that doesn’t have some type bias, but when we’re conscious about it we’re able to hopefully take individuals objectively based upon what they bring to the table. This is the situation that we have working with these others to accomplish these goals. What are the leadership, what are the personality behaviors that we need to have in place to get that done?

That should have nothing to do with whether it is male or female or any other factors that may come into play? Because I also on in addition to dealing with being a female you very well probably know that I also have to be cognizant of the mean angry black woman scenario that could be out there as well. So there are various factors that come into play. So each one of us, if we can get to the point of really just taking individuals at value, the value that they bring to the table, the diversity that they bring to the table, everyone does not have to think the same way. Everyone does not have to speak the same way. And there might be a time that there is a need to show passion and emotion on something, because if you are about to go down a path that is destructive for the organization, I need to get you to listen to me. So I have to figure out what’s the best way to do that. So again, with that, it is really getting down to if each one of us can first recognize that we do have biases, but don’t let those interrupt greatness coming forth. And the people that we’re working with in order to get things done.

Jenn DeWall:  Oh, thank you so much for addressing that because I, you know, we talk a lot about how we can manage ourselves. So we do have to, you know, continue to have those conversations about reexamining, how we make these judgments, or how bias plays a role and how we actually see other people. Now, I know that, and we had talked about a few other, you know, traps or challenges. There was the double-blind. And I just love that. Damned if you do, doomed, if you don’t, what are other traps that leaders need to be mindful of?

Self-Awareness and Imposter Syndrome

Lillian Davenport:  I think another trap that leaders and we as women should be mindful of when we find ourselves just from an awareness standpoint that we’re trying to overcompensate and that overcompensation could come into the fact that we are working much, much harder, because we don’t want anyone to find any flaws in what we’re doing. So we’re already exceptional performers. And that’s where you might start thinking about imposter syndrome. The fact that we if you are already a high achiever and you always looking back over your shoulder, cuz you’re thinking that somebody is going to find out that I’m not as good as they think I am. The truth is you are, but you want to be aware, even for yourself. And this is where that internal self-awareness comes in. Be aware for yourself how you might be creating that perception. That’s driving that syndrome of not believing, having the insecurity that you are as good as you are. So for, for instance, I was thinking about this, and I was trying to come back, and I’ve had some discussion with that women groups before. It’s amazing what our rearing from childhood, what impact it has on us. Oh, it’s just simply amazing.

Jenn DeWall:  Yes, yes. <Laugh>

Lillian Davenport:  It does. So I remember I love my dad to death, but I remember that I used to do a lot of gospel singing growing up. They tell me that I started, I led my first song when I was 18 months old. Someone helped me up to a mic and I sung! And my dad probably bringing it over from his own father. He was very much into singing and when I would get up and lead a song at church, he’s like, you need to do your best, do your best. Don’t don’t sidestep. Do your best at it. And even now, sometimes I find myself questioning myself, have I done my best? Because that’s what I heard when I was growing up. And the truth was, I nailed it then. And I’m nailing it now. So why am I casting doubt up on my, myself thinking that what I’m doing, somebody is going to figure out that, oh my goodness, she’s not as good as she thinks she is about this. The truth is is that we, if we fall into that trap and the way to get around that trap is to have those affirmations for yourself, that you can reaffirm that, you know, that you’re knowledgeable, you are competent, you have everything that you need to produce. What is necessary at the level that you are and you have what it is needed to move to whatever that next level that you want to be. So that’s another trap that we can fall into is just that self doubt that comes into play as well.

Jenn DeWall:  Well, and we all have self-doubt I actually, in one speaking event, I had someone raised their hand and say, I don’t have self doubt. And I was just like, give me five minutes with you. I guarantee we will uncover that because that’s part of being human . But I appreciate, you know, again, the part that we are, the authors of these stories, we are the authors, we’re the ones that allow them to be written and continue to add, you know, additional details, supporting evidence. I mean, I am a master author and I feel like I love talking about confidence, but I still do this myself. And so when we’re saying this, it’s not from a place of, of judgment, it’s a natural human tendency for our own self-preservation and it’s okay. But we have to be mindful of, are you having thoughts and listening to thoughts that are working for you or against you? And I just, I love the perspective, even like remembering what messages we received early on, like always do your best and how that puts those pressures or that pressure onto people. I think we forget that, you know, we get to choose. I don’t know. Do people, people always forget to, they get to choose. I do too. I guess when I’m under stress, I totally forget that I get to choose. Like,

Lillian Davenport:  I am right there with you because so focused on trying to be exceptional at what we’re doing. I had a girlfriend, a ball bag. She did call out and I’m a recovering perfectionist excellence is great. That’s all that’s really necessary. Perfection’s not a requirement.

Jenn DeWall:  Yeah. I mean, I always look at perfection as the thing that’s right next to the fountain of youth. And also right next to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, like the things that we somehow understand that those things don’t exist and why we can’t tell ourselves that perfectionism doesn’t exist. I don’t know. I mean, I, I, I do it too.

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Self Awareness and Reading the Room

Jenn DeWall:  One of the pieces of advice that you know that we had talked about as it comes down to building your strategic awareness. And I love this is how to read a room, because I think that a lot of people enter the room. Maybe just not even thinking about how their presence impacts others. And so when it comes down to building your strategic awareness, how do you, how do you read a room, whether that’s zoom or in person, like how can you start to develop the way that other people perceive you?

Lillian Davenport:  Well, you know I would say reading the room is even greater than a physical room. So read the, in the room of your environment that you’re operating in. And part of that, I think from being an introvert for me, is being able to observe, observe the dynamics that are going on in that environment that you’re in and then being able to come back for yourself based upon. And I think part of that reading that room is if you don’t have a vision, you really don’t have any place to go. And you don’t have an idea of about what you need to, what you might want to do. I won’t say need to cause it’s a choice that you have, so what you might want to do to adjust. So part of reading that room is knowing what your vision is that you want to accomplish to begin with, not just keeping your head down.

And I love the analogy of the turtle and the giraffe, they can be both in the same spot, but the giraffe is only going to see what’s down at the ground because that’s what his view is. But the turtle rather is going to only see what’s down at the ground, but the giraffe is up in the air. Being able to look around, scan the environment, see where there are trends, where there are patterns,who’s mingling together, what needs to be done and be able to make a decision about the action that the giraffe wants to do and the direction that they want to go in. I think the same thing is there. Read the room in terms of the the overall vision that you have of the direction that you want to go and then try to find and identify some trusted individuals, not just any individuals, I will call them loving critics.

Because I don’t need a critic who hates me to actually be giving me feedback. And I don’t particularly want feedback from people that I don’t really respect because I’m not going to accept their feedback. So determine in that room, who can you approach about giving you some earnest feedback when I I’m working and you can very easily say I’m working on becoming more strategic in the way that I am presenting myself, I’m giving you carte blanche to give me feedback. What do you see that I might be able to do differently? Even if it’s only just one thing. And if you’re working with that person or your interfacing with that person on a regular basis, and you give them permission to give you feedback, then you can get on the spot feedback in the moment in the meeting, in the interaction and be able to use it and continue to increase your awareness and process it and determine what, if anything you want to do differently.

Strategic Self-Awareness and Too Many Cheerleaders

Jenn DeWall:  Yes. And so we’re talking, it sounds like it’s not just, you know, the strategy or the purpose of that meeting. It’s understanding our leadership presence. I want to be seen as blank. Can you give me that feedback? You know, I think that I love that you talked about the loving critics, because I think sometimes we, when we’re not in a place of confidence, just open ourselves up to anyone’s feedback and that’s just not great because first and foremost, if they don’t like you, they’re just gonna lay it in. And then you’re going to hear that. But on the flip side, what if you have raging fans that don’t wanna tell you the truth? <Laugh>

Lillian Davenport:  That that is an excellent one. And you know, studies say the higher you go in the organization, you’re gonna have raving fans that are really not raving fans, but they know that you actually signed their paychecks <laugh> and they’re not gonna give you earnest feedback. So even with raving fans, what I would do is say, if your circle is of all raving fans, who will not likely give you any earnest feedback, then you want to expand your circle.

Jenn DeWall:  Yes,

Lillian Davenport: It’s good to have cheerleaders. It’s good to have raving fans. And it’s great to have those individuals, especially when you need to have that great positive reinforcement. But if I’m earnestly trying to change and take myself to whatever that next level is, I need to find someone hopefully who already has that next level competence that I’m looking for and engage them to help me to take an earnest look at myself. So raving fans have their place. Don’t set them to the side, but if they are not willing to give you other than yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I know there has to be a no there someplace and you can challenge them on that as well. If that is your circle that you’re with. You can absolutely challenge them to I need for you to stretch beyond the norm of what you normally see in me and help me to grow, because this is what I’m trying to do, and I appreciate your support, but I also appreciate that you are willing to invest in me to tell me where I do have a little tweaking that would enable me to be even stronger at what I’m doing.

Lillian Davenport:  So hopefully you can get them that raving fan from that spot by encouraging them to do so. But if not find yourself, someone who’s not just within that circle and expand, make your circle a little bit larger so that you can get the feedback that you need.

Jenn DeWall:  I love that! Challenge the yes-men, or the ones that are giving you most of the yeses, because I think it comes back to the earlier point. Perfection doesn’t exist. And so we likely always have an opportunity to improve a different way to say something. And yeah, we can get really great landings, but we definitely, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. And so, you know, listening to those people and saying, I love the way that you proposed, just encouraging them to, you know, open up a little bit more or give them a little bit more and maybe saying like, yeah, like I understand this one. Great. But tell me more about this because I might feel blank. We have to challenge that. I mean, I know it’s easy to hang your head on the accolades, actually, not for me because I suffer with receiving positive accolades.

<Laugh> because, you know, it’s like when your perfection is yours used to the critical or you take the critical that’s what motivates you. But we have to challenge ourselves to get there. If maybe you’re more used to the positive, then you might need to challenge yourself to get to, what’s really lying underneath. Now. We only have a few minutes left, but I wanna hit the final piece, which is how can we develop our self-awareness? Like what, from your perspective, because there’s a lot of different ways that we can do it. What are some tips and techniques for how you can, sorry, assess your self-awareness to determine, am I aware? Am I not really aware? Is it ignorance? Is it bliss land? What’s going on?

How Can We Develop More Self-Awareness?

Lillian Davenport:  Well, you know, one of the things I will always say objectively, it is great to do a validated assessment. There are some great assessments out there, but assessments are no good if you’re not willing to receive the feedback. Apart from assessments that are validated and that may be a little bit costly, there are some things that I recommend. You can send maybe choose 5 to 10 people, and this is super simple. You can choose 5 to 10 people. And if you’re, if they’re comfortable in sending the feedback directly to you, you can shoot them an email. I am trying to gather some insight into how you view your interactions with me. And can you just give me one adjective that describes how it is to work with me? So I did this probably 10 or 15 years ago, and one of the adjectives that came back was loyal and that is true.

Once you get in my circle, you are in my circle. So I know that to be true. So that’s a very quick way of getting a perception of what others see in you. You can go a little bit farther than that. If you want to be very specific with the questioning, you could ask someone 5 to 10 people again, and you wanna just sit and listen. That’s the thing about gathering information, ask the question, take in document, you know, take notes of what they’re saying and say thank you and do not debate with them and get into a discussion about it. So you can very much ask them is if there was one thing that you could see that I could do beginning today that would make me more effective in interacting with others. What would that be? One thing.

Again, maybe have a little mini coffee or something, or a mini zoom. Ask the question, take the notes. Only ask a question to clarify what you think you’re hearing, but do not get into a debate with it. Take it away, process it and determine how you’re going to use it to increase awareness. The great thing about self-awareness we will be doing becoming more self-aware until the day that we die, because situations are always changing. People are always changing. We’re always learning something new. And I was saying earlier about Dr. Tasha Eurich. She did a survey and in the survey 95 other respondents said that they were self-aware and in actuality, her research says only about 10 to 15% really are.

Jenn DeWall:  It’s that low?

Lillian Davenport:  It’s that low.

Jenn DeWall:  I mean, I knew it was low, but holy cow!

Lillian Davenport:  <Laugh> Only 10 to 15% of people are actually self-aware. So the truth is that self-awareness kind of comes with that emotional intelligence as well. The more aware that you are, the more that you’re gonna know how to flex in different situations, interpersonal interactions, how to manage your emotions, and all of that comes into play yet. It’s not something that’s a one-and-done. It is something that we’re doing constantly on the ready all the time, whether you’re in your personal life or in your professional life. We’re all becoming–if we choose to– we’re all becoming more aware of the impact that we have with others, we’re becoming more aware of what we want to do, what we want to accomplish, how we want to show up how we want to lean into our strengths. And I will never say that we need to try to make a weakness a strength.

You might want to mitigate it by bringing someone else to help do something to where you might not be as strong, but trying to spend all that time to turn that weakness into a strength is probably not where you’re gonna want to spend your dime. But lean into your strength. Learn as we go and adjust and flex and know that we are not islands unto ourselves. So we’re having, we, we wish that we could be our authentic selves all the time, but the truth is sometimes I might want to stay silent. Even authentically. I would love to tell you you’re so wrong about that, but it may not be the time and the place. Or the right thing to do at that point in time.

Where to Find More From Lillian Davenport

Jenn DeWall: I love that. I mean, you’re closing remarks, lean into your strengths, learn, and also adjust. Be willing to adapt! And Lillian, where can our audience get in touch with you?

Lillian Davenport:  The best way to get in touch with me is via my website, which is end E -N- D as in David View Solutions with an,

Jenn DeWall:  And there you can connect about speaking coaching. I’m sure you have a resource page. You’ve got it all there. Lillian, thank you so much for joining, for sharing, for talking about strategic awareness. I really appreciate your time and the insights that you’re providing for our audience. Thank you so much for helping them develop a better leadership presence.

Lillian Davenport:  Thank you, Jenn. It’s been a pleasure to be with you today.

Jenn DeWall:  Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I really enjoyed my conversation with Lillian. And if you want to get to know more about Lillian connect with her head on over to There, you can find more about how you can use her as a coach, a speaker, or just get to know about her expertise in developing that power of strategic awareness. And of course, if you enjoyed this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. And finally, if Crestcom can help you develop your own leadership development or awareness head on over to, we would love to talk with you and figure out and assess how we can support you to be the best that you can be.