Four Words to Transform Your Sales with Merit Kahn, CEO of SELLect Sales Development

4 Words to Transform Your Sales with Merit Kahn, CEO of SELLect Sales Development

Jenn DeWall:

Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Merit Kahn to talk about the four words to transform your sales. Merit Kahn is the CEO of SELLect- emphasis on sell- of SELLect Sales Development, author of Myth Shift: Challenging the Truths That Sabotage Success, co-host of The Smarter Sales Show podcast. And she is also a certified emotional intelligence coach and certified speaking professional. Since 1998, Merit has worked with salespeople, entrepreneurs, professionals, and sales teams, teaching them how to stop selling and start getting selected by their ideal clients. I hope you enjoy this conversation as Merit and I talk about the four words that can transform your sales.

Meet Merit Kahn, Sales Expert

Jenn DeWall:

Hi everyone. I am so excited to be joined here on The Leadership Habit podcast with Merit Kahn. And today, we’re going to be talking about the four words to transform your sales. I feel like everyone’s probably like, what are those words, Merit? I want to know! But before that, before that we’re, we’re gonna leave that as a teaser, Merit. Can you just go ahead and introduce yourself? Tell us about who you are. This is your second time back on the podcast. We are so happy to have you. You provide a wealth of knowledge. So if you could just reintroduce yourself to our listening audience.

Merit Kahn:

Absolutely. Thanks for having me back. I am the CEO of SELLect Sales Development. We, we spell it S E L L E C T. That’s deliberate, not a misspelling. But we actually teach people to stop selling, and we want you to start getting selected by your ideal clients for your ideal clients of projects. And that’s really what we’re all about. So we teach a framework that helps people really us with the mechanics of selling what to do, or the action plans, what to, what to say or what to do, but really the mindset of strong sales and strong influencers. So

Jenn DeWall:

Wait, I mean, you made that sound simple, but here’s the thing. If the audience might be like, what do you mean stop selling? What do you mean by that? Because is that’s my job, right? If I want to generate revenue, what do you mean by that?

Merit Kahn:

Exactly. You know, I mean, I don’t know, maybe you’ve never gotten any of those pushy aggressive sales messages through LinkedIn or email again, your voicemail, those people that knock on your door, like all of the pushy, aggressive sales-y things that you’re kind of hardwired to push against. We don’t teach people how to do that. Most of the people that we work with, people, what people really appreciate is, you know, they’re professionals, they’re experts at what they do. They’re entrepreneurs, they’re, they’re good in their area of expertise, and they don’t necessarily want to feel like they’re pushing their solutions on anybody. They really wanna have what we call the new ABCs of selling. So it’s no longer about “always be closing,” that sales and pushing <laugh>. Now it’s about authentic business conversations. And so that’s when you are making that transition from sales old school, like how do, what do I say to close the deal and press hard? The third copy is yours. It’s Tuesday or Thursday better. Once you get rid of all that nonsense, you can really start to have authentic business conversations with your prospects and clients to determine together if there’s a mutual benefit to doing a transaction or creating a relationship together and do some appropriate business. And that’s what we’re all about. We wanna teach how to ask the right questions and, and create relationships that are truly those win-win partnerships.

Transform Your Sales With Authentic Relationships

Jenn DeWall:

Gotcha. I mean, I love that you talked about the word authentic. I think that’s so important. And I feel like, I don’t know if it’s that people today aren’t necessarily being trained or educated on sales, but what I feel like I see as a consumer, as an individual more and more is I would say more aggressive sales tactics. Oh, you haven’t, you didn’t respond to my email that I never asked you to send me. Right. And they kinda get like worse and worse. And I’m actually very surprised because where I don’t know how some of these things are being picked up, but I am seeing more and more of it. And so I am begging people to hire you because I want someone, cause you also said the second word— appropriate. And you know, I, I really do feel like there’s a need for people to understand what is appropriate today. And just because you got my email does not give you permission to basically send me five, six emails when I never asked about your product. I mean, I don’t, like I never asked, don’t even know what your product was. I don’t even know why you asked me. Like, and it’s, I don’t know. I think it’s because when I get that second one, that’s really rude. I’m that more frustrated? Like why would I ever do business with you now, ever, even if I did think of you. Speaking for anyone in the universe right now, <laugh>

Merit Kahn:

Well, and what you’re speaking to you is pretty common. It’s, you know, nobody wants to feel sold. Nobody wants to be pushed into anything. We all wanna make our own decisions. We wanna make our selections and what people are forgetting. And, and actually, I, you know, I’m guilty of this and the first half of my sales career, I didn’t really understand the value of this. But really, the first step to a closed deal is always an open mind. And when you step over that, when you try to imagine that everything that you’ve got is, is this perfect solution for somebody and you’ve got the right answers and you’ve got something there. You know, if everybody just knew about this, we’d close more deals, we’d have more clients. And so there’s an excitement. I appreciate the excitement, the enthusiasm about your offers, but you haven’t earned the right to pitch that yet first you and, and also you’re going to run the risk of ruining re potential qualified prospects by not treating them properly in the very beginning, which the very first thing that you wanna do is make sure that they’re open to hearing your offers, your solutions, your ideas, your opportunities, because if they’re not, not, it’s really no different than talking to a brick wall. Right? <Laugh> you know, It’s like, they’re not hearing you so stop wasting your breath.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for saying that. Sorry that I went on my pain point. I am just fatigued of hearing those messages and I just don’t know where they’ve been picked up, but now we’ll get into the top of good hand because I know even just with the knowledge and truth that you just shared right now, this is going to be a great conversation. So the four words to transform your sales, what are the four words?

Merit Kahn:

Well, if you’re open to it, I’m gonna give you I’m you a couple questions before I reveal those words. Are you okay with that?

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah!

The Four Words to Transform Your Sales: Are You Open To

Merit Kahn:

All right. So there was a study done at Pepperdine University a number of years ago. They were trying to figure out if people really identified themselves as being open-minded. So they asked people if they would rate themselves as more open-minded than the average, and 95% of people said yes. So I don’t know about you, Jenn. Like, I don’t know where you learned math, but I learned old math. I’m old. Right? So in old math, those numbers don’t work. 95% of us cannot be better than the average. Just doesn’t work. Maybe new math. I dunno.

So if that’s the truth, then when I ask you, are you interested in something, Hey Jenn, are you interested in inviting me on the show to do a podcast? It’s pretty easy for you, actually. Well, you, that’s a bad example because you already know me and love me <laugh>, but it would be easy for you to say no to that. Like you can be uninterested in something, and it doesn’t impact you. Like you’ll sleep at night. No problem. Right. But if you wanna identify as somebody who’s open-minded and I ask you, are you open to inviting me back to do a second show on the podcast? It’s pretty hard to say no, I’m not open to it. Right? Because that speaks to who you are in terms of your identity. So the magic words I know, right? So the four magic words that will transform sales and I would argue pretty much anything else in life. Is, are you open to, and it’s really as simple as that, rather than asking somebody, if they’re interested in something, ask them if they’re open to it and, and see what happens from there.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that. Just, I mean, it’s so simple, right? Are you like, instead of, are you interested? And plus I feel like that gets added to like, Hey, let me know if you have any questions, if you’re interested, but “are you open to” actually makes me stop and think, I love that. And you described that. I didn’t even recognize the mind cycle that I just had marriage <laugh> of thinking like, yeah. Are you open to, because I think there is that piece of like it’s natural that’s or I guess in your experience, how do you notice, like how have you seen people apply that and change or transform their sales?

Merit Kahn:

Well, you mentioned LinkedIn. And so it seems like all of a sudden, you know, those of us who’ve been using LinkedIn for a really long time, you didn’t used to get the sales, the pushy aggressive lengthy sales messages in your LinkedIn messaging. And so now we’ve kind of, they’ve already, we’ve already trained ourselves like, oh, that’s, you know, not, not reading that one, like that’s a sales pitch. And so we are already not seeing it. So maybe just try this new approach and if you’re gonna do an automated, you know, process in your LinkedIn, try just less is more. Try getting to them open first because the truth of the matter is until they, they opt-in, in a sense and say, yes, I am open to learning a little bit more. Then you’re basically, you know, giving your sales pitch to the spam, you know, delete folder anyway.

So none of that is making a difference. So if you just tried a different approach and if you even got a few bites on that, then you’re actually able to deliver your full message to somebody who’s actually open to hearing it. So I would just try that and just say, you know, Hey, we haven’t done business. Would you be open to having a conversation to see if what you, what we do, and what you might need is a match at all? It’s a little harder to delete that there’s a curiosity factor, and I’m not trying to sell you prematurely.

Jenn DeWall:

Yes. Well, and I feel like there’s that makes me feel like they’re respecting me my time, me as a person, whether or not I would even want to buy, I feel like there’s an implied respect through those four words. I don’t know if that is also an intentional piece, but it just feels much more you’re inviting me into the conversation instead of pushing all of your stuff and then I’m yelling at me if I don’t want it, which is how some of that stuff feels exactly.

Transform Your Sales with Respectful, Authentic Business Conversations

Merit Kahn:

Yeah. You picked up on it. It is respectful, and it is an invitation and, and it does fundamentally feel different, but it also sets the stage for the conversation, the authentic business conversation that you really do wanna have. And you absolutely can’t have that if they don’t start with an open mind. So again, I, I always remind people, I’ll say it a few times. The first step to a closed deal is always an open mind. And so we really wanna be aware of that. That’s not something that’s baked into a typical sales process, right. You know, opening the other person’s mind, but it’s very simple. It’s very quick. And it’s really universal. In fact I use the same question, whether you and I are meeting one on one for a sales conversation, or I’m doing the opening keynote at a large conference. It, I open with the same question and that is, have you already decided it can’t get any better?

Or are you open to a new possibility? And I mean, think about that. Have you already decided it can’t get any better? Or are you open to a new possibility? When you ask that question- First of all, there’s two people that have to answer that question. First. We need to ask ourselves because, honestly, if I don’t think anything’s gonna get better in my business, I’m not gonna go to that networking event. I’m not paying to go to that conference. I’m not picking up the phone. I’m not, you know, renewing sales navigator on LinkedIn, right? There’s a host of things that I’m not gonna do if fundamentally I don’t see any growth potential in my business. So that’s the first thing you have to first see more. You have to be open to new possibilities, maybe in an aspect of your business. Am I open to things being easier and the sales cycle being shorter.

Okay. If I’m open to it, now I’m on the hunt for what are, are the ways that I can actually manifest that? Or maybe manifest the wrong woo-woo word. Execute right? Execute for all of the-

Jenn DeWall:

Just providing options, right?

Merit Kahn:

Yeah. You know, manifest if you want, but execute, if that’s more comfortable for you, it’s the same thing. But first nothing’s gonna happen unless you’re open to that new possibility. So the first person we ask that question is of ourselves. The second person is that we ask whoever we’re in a conversation with about a sales possibility. And so when I ask a prospect or an audience, that question, they have to think about that. They have to ask themselves, you know, am I open to a new possibility or is this about as good as it gonna get? And when they ask themselves that question, the magic is whatever they come up with as the answer that cannot be wrong. So I can’t force you to be open, but if I ask you the question, then you ask yourself and, and you discover for yourself that, yeah, yeah. I am open to a new possibility. And now it’s a whole different starting point to a sales conversation.

Jenn DeWall:

I, well, where do people get the starting point wrong? Cuz I, I love this. I can see that very clearly. Are you open to it? You know, you had talked about, it creates curiosity. It allows someone to make that choice conscious and intentional choice for themselves, whether they’re ready to invest and it sets the stage as you had said for that authentic connection, where do people get this wrong? I mean, I know we talked about a few different examples, but what are you seeing? And maybe we should preface it as you’re not incorrect, but maybe your sales process has an opportunity to change. <Laugh> are you open to it yeah.

The Open For Business Framework

Merit Kahn:

I think there’s a, there’s actually a couple places where people get it wrong. So I’ll say it like this. Most people in a sales conversation are, are really relying on the mechanics of selling. The what do I say? So they start with their quote unquote elevator pitch and they dump all over somebody. Like here’s all the ways that we can help you. And they start with the how, instead of why, like nobody cares how you deliver your programs or your solutions or your products until they understand why it’s in alignment with what their concerns and frustrations really are. So, so that’s the first major mistake is people are just quickly getting to how they fix things without understanding why does that really need to be fixed in the first place? Right. the other thing that people are getting wrong is they’re in an argument with reality about how the they might be wired and how that impacts the words that come to them to even say in the first place. So let me unpack that a little bit slower.

We have what we call our open for business framework. So when we work with a company or an entrepreneur, when I’m doing a program for an organization, there’s always three main components, you know, to be open for business is so much more than just having open office hours. And you’re able to transact business, you know, do a, a transaction, right. Being open for business, really open is its beyond the motions and the actions of, of B doing business. It’s a mindset as well. It’s an attitude it’s really being open to receive. It’s being enthusiastic about the business it’s being prepared. There’s a lot that goes into that. So the framework is really mindset, mechanics motion. So if you think about it, mindset is what you think. Mechanics is what you say, motion is what you do now. I hate to use the pandemic as an example at this year, at this point where two years passed all of the drama at this point, but it was a universal shared experience. It’s a little hard not to pick on it. Right.

Jenn DeWall:

Right!

Merit Kahn:

So if you tell me in an example, sales people, I was doing a lot of webinars at, or you know, early 2020 because what people were frustrated with is they didn’t know what was an appropriate conversation to have. You know, like I know I should to keep in touch with people. I know I should check in. I still think I need to sell something, but I’m not sure what’s appropriate. And so I found myself really leaning a lot more on the emotional intelligence training and, and certification that I’ve had. And what I recognized was there’s a, there’s a relationship between your level of empathy for others and your level of assertiveness for your own solutions. And when that was out of balance, it, it was ineffective in a myriad of ways.

Transform Your Sales by Balancing Empathy with Assertiveness

Merit Kahn:

So let’s pretend you’re, you’re a sales professional, your business leader, and you’re making calls to your clients or prospects and you’re high empathy, but you have very little assertiveness, so that conversation is going to sound no matter how, how well you’re trained you’re gonna say, gosh, you know, it’s really hard out there right now and there’s so much change and are you okay? Is there anything I can do to help you? And you’re gonna feel good because you were putting yourself in their shoes and all of that, but you get off the phone, even knowing that what you have could really help them in this moment in time, but you don’t offer it because your high empathy, low assertiveness,

Jenn DeWall:

I can think of so many times that I, as a business owner, as a coach, like have done that of, you know, you get in and you hear a client’s needs and yes, you just start to like, I want to serve or fix or help. Oh my gosh. I can totally relate to that. <Laugh>

Merit Kahn:

Right. OK. So let’s, let’s that’s one example then there’s the other side of the coin, which is people who are highly assertive, not aggressive, aggressive is mean assertive is grounded in your solution, confident in your and all of that. So if you’re high assertive, but low empathy, and then you’re making those calls that same timeframe. Well now you’re just kind of coming across as a jerk. It’s like, do you not know that there’s a, a global issue going on right now? Like seriously, you’re trying to call me and sell me your widgets, like right?

Jenn DeWall:

A disconnect.

Merit Kahn:

What people really need. And I would argue, this is true in any marketplace, no matter what is going on in the world, we won’t always wanna balance our level of empathy and assertiveness and what that sounds like in actual language using the four magic words. So let some forum is, Hey, I know things are really difficult out there. I can’t even imagine what’s going on in your world and I’d love for you to, you know, share whatever is happening. But if you’re open to it, can we have a conversation about the one thing that is within our control and see if our solutions, as it relates to business development strategies and these crazy times would be appropriate for helping you out of, you know, the situation that you’re in right now. Now the words, the actual words, and maybe I embellished, maybe it’s a little longer than you might say it, but the premise is the same.

It’s, I’m, I’m aware I wanna balance my empathy for them and my assertiveness that I do have a solution that can help. And I’m not gonna be quiet about it, especially if it’s a challenging time and I serve you right now. And the glue in between it is would you be open to having a conversation about the part that we can control? So that’s an example of really the importance of understanding how mindset plays in, because no matter what I train you to say in the mechanics of selling, if we’re layering that on top of you don’t know where you stand with empathy, assertiveness, self-regard, optimism, flexibility, some of the other emotional intelligence attributes that we can test for, then you’re at an incredible disadvantage because you don’t know how to adjust your approach or your language in different situations.

Emotional Intelligence Transforms Your Sales

Jenn DeWall:

Which I think brings forth. Or I guess the question for me is, you know, I know emotional intelligence, I love that this approach is really rooted in that. What do you do for the person? Like I have to think that there is someone on LinkedIn that actually probably thinks that they have a balanced approach to both assertiveness and empathy. Oh, I’m not certain if you have the answer, but how do you work with clients to maybe develop that self-awareness around, Hey, like maybe this approach probably could be dialed down or dialed up. Like how do you help people generate that self-awareness?

Merit Kahn:

Well I, I look at the ink in the paper. I do an actual assessment. I use a tool from multi health systems out of Toronto and they’ve got a highly scientifically validated assessment tool. And that really does tell me, you know, it measures your level of self-awareness. So if there’s a lack of self-awareness, then I know I have to read the report a little bit differently to them see the reality of the, their current wiring. What I love about that whole body of work is that it’s a snapshot in time and it can change and you can put some deliberate intention behind learning and growing and expanding your capacity in any of those areas that we can assess. But in particular, I, I always think it’s interesting to look at the individual attributes, but it’s always really the combinations and how they play together.

That really paint the full picture. And, you know, if you may have, you may not really see a finding the way that it, that others around you see it, but once you have that initial awareness, it just, it, it tunes you in to some of those potential blind spots that could be sabotaging your success without even knowing it. So I guess it’s another application for that. Are you open to question because you know, it really in, you know, you could ask a question of somebody, like, I know that you relate to yourself, you experience yourself as being balanced in empathy and assertiveness? And the example that I shared, would you be open to sharing with me real-world scenarios where maybe it’s been a little out of balance or maybe, you know, you’ve experienced other people out of balance and you kind of just invite them to discover for themselves where it may not be as balanced as they thought.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. And I think you hit the nail on that. If you find that you’re reflecting and you’re like, you know what, maybe I wasn’t showing up in this way as balanced, you had said it, it can be changed. You can change, you can grow only if are you open to, or you are open to <laugh>. Right. But I feel like that’s, you know, cause I think with emotional intelligence, it does get really easy to beat yourself up around maybe how you didn’t approach things in the past and how yes. Those relationships might be damaged or that person just maybe doesn’t remember at all, but give yourself permission to change today. So your first piece is mindset. Anything else you would add about the open to business framework as it relates to mindset?

Merit Kahn:

Well, mindset, really it’s more than the emotional piece. So I, I wanna, I don’t wanna step over the other pieces. It’s re you know, when I first started talking about the importance of a strong sales or leadership mindset, success mindset, you know, it, it’s one of those things. Everybody goes, yeah, that makes so much sense. And then they leave. They’re like, I have no idea what to do <laugh> to fix that or to figure out where I am, like, what is my mindset? It seems so ambiguous. And I really worked hard to try to figure out what are the pieces of that puzzle. I came down to three, there’s your internal mindset. That’s what you say to yourself. Those are your beliefs. Right? And you wanna do like a beliefs inventory. There might be things that you believe about money or the level of decision maker that you’re comfortable talking with, or the, the amount of money you think you’re worth. And maybe that got set at a certain point in your career and then life changed, or, you know, it used to be when I was in my twenties, I thought a hundred thousand dollars was a lot of money. And now I’m like, how does anybody live on that? <Laugh> like, oh my God. Right? So, but it’s shifted because my, my life experience shifted my needs shifted, right? So, but if my money mindset didn’t shift along with it, I’d be starving.

So, internal mind is an opportunity to take an inventory of the beliefs that you have about different things that are either supporting you or sabotaging you. And sometimes those hand me down beliefs, we need to hand back. And so that’s the first piece, the second piece of the puzzle, we call behavioral mindset. And that is what your actions say to other people. So that’s, you know, you’re probably familiar with behavioral style assessments, personality assessments, disc profiles, things like that. And that’s understanding, you know, how your actions are gonna be interpreted by other people and how to adjust your approach so that you can be better understood by someone else who has a different style than yours. And then that third piece is your emotional mindset, which we’ve talked about, but that’s really how well you underst and your own triggers, how well you are in control of your own emotional responses. And you understand how that, how your emotions impact others around you. So those three pieces of the puzzle are very easy to identify. And then there’s very different ways that we work with clients to make sure that they’re strengthening their mindset in the appropriate ways that will help them have those awareness moments that then we can layer on the, the training and the, the skills and the action plans that really work with their strengths.

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Transform Your Fear of Rejection

Jenn DeWall:

Okay. I have to ask, it’s probably a personal question, right? How do you coach people? Because I, you know, one of the things that makes sales an intimidating thing to even pursue or to execute as an individual is the fear of rejection, which I know has to be tied to that emotional mindset or the behavioral mindset. How do you even coach people, like what would be your tips to manage rejection? Because that is still the hardest that’s, you know, the biggest reason of why I think you might be more assertive then is like, well, I’m just gonna push it down your throat. Like, and I don’t care. But what do you say to that? Because that that’s me, I’m sure there’s so many other people that are like, I just am afraid to sell because I’m afraid of being rejected.

Merit Kahn:

I actually think that the fear of reject the most effective way I’ve seen to deal with that fear of rejection is kind of coming in the back door. So we’re we’re impact mindset, but we’re gonna do it through being in motion. And part of that is, again, it’s that awareness it’s going through that exercise of, okay, I wanna, I’m just making up numbers here. I wanna close a hundred thousand dollars in business. And my average sale is $10,000. So clearly I need 10 of those. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> automatically takes you from everyone in the universe is a prospect. If you could fog a mirror, you could buy my stuff and maybe, you know, and I’ll reach my 10, my, my 10 customers to, oh, I only need 10. That’s not even one a month, like, huh. So I think there’s, there’s more power in the, the reality.

Again, it does relate to emotional intelligence in the fact that we do wanna have a sense of, we can measure your level of reality testing and your level of optimism. So that’s another great combination to look at for sales people, like I’m really high optimism and I have to work at keeping reality in check, right? So that that’s like the beginning of the year, I’m like, of course I’m gonna make my aggressive goals that I’ve never hit my entire life. Like, of course this is gonna be that year <laugh> and like, absolutely. But then I have to be like, well, you know, and then the reality is this is my actual capacity, given the team that I have right now. If I really wanna reach that goal, I’m gonna have to do something different about the team. I’m gonna have to do something different about our offers, our marketing strategy, like there’s work to do, right. So it’s that balance of reality and optimism. That’s going to help you deal with that fear of rejection, you know, because I have to have a clear strategy to, to reach my goals and recognize that not everybody needs to fit in that picture and that that’s okay. It’s almost like, you know, it’s, it’s like dating. It’s like, I’m not gonna be a perfect fit for everybody. You’re gonna marry that one person. That’s the person

Jenn DeWall:

<Laugh> right.

Merit Kahn:

Just dating to find that person.

Jenn DeWall:

No, I think that’s a helpful way to look at it is like having optimism, the belief that it can work out, but also acknowledging reality and what might be the barriers or obstacles or constraints that you have that are getting in your way. And it’s, it’s not just you. There are other things outside of you that are impacting it like the pandemic.

Merit Kahn:

So the open for business framework Is all about the mechanics of selling. So that’s really focused on what do you say? And there are pieces of the process. And I think that when, when, when people are winging it through the sales process, not only does it feel unorganized for your prospect and they get a sense of, I don’t know if I can trust you because I’m not sure that either one of us knows a, what we’re supposed to do next, like it’s not up to your prospect to guide you through how to sell your solutions. Right? And so you really wanna be buttoned down with that, right? You, you need to know where you are in the sales process. It, it also eliminates a lot of the stress and the reason that people don’t like to think of themselves as salespeople because they feel like they’re pushy and aggressive because they don’t have a roadmap for it.

And so it’s very simple. First we start with investigation, like, who really are your ideal, what’s the ideal profile. And and, and how do you approach that with a curiosity? So you’re really looking for who’s, who’s the right fit. And then you set an expectation, which is, you know, this is kind of how it works. And we’re first gonna, I’m gonna ask you some questions. We’re gonna determine if we kind of feel comfortable each other to going on to the next step. And then if we do, you know, we’ll make a decision, this makes sense or, or doesn’t it’s appropriate offer it isn’t. And so it’s kind of like putting that frame around the whole process and then you get into questioning, you know, there should never be a question that is ever asked of you at any time of, of the sales process where you don’t feel like you are in control anymore.

And if you’ve ever had that experience, somebody gives you an objection or they ask a question you are prepared for, like, you sh there’s always a way to deal with that. And so I teach very in depth, very easy questioning strategies so that you’re never caught off guard. Once you have those things in place, then you can go on to qualification. And those are things like, you know, do they have pain, right? Like, is there a reason for them to buy? Do they have, you know, are they willing and able to make an investment to solve the problem and does their decision-making people process all of that? Does that match with something that I’m comfortable working within? So those are qualifiers. And at any point, somebody might not qualify for how you like to do business or, or your offers or how much you charge or any of that. So that’s the next piece. And then the final piece is–

Finding Your Niche

Jenn DeWall:

Can I ask a quick question about the, like, about the, because I, I want, I wanna ask about objections, but even in the investigation, because I feel like, and whether it’s someone that, you know, is with it in sales or even leaders of an organization, I think one of the most difficult pieces it, or that I see is that they try to be, as you said, like, if they can fog up a mirror or they can buy my, they try to be everything to everyone. So I’m curious, how do you help people actually know you’re not just shutting down business by saying no to someone, because I notice that people, they can be told that advice or like make sure, and from a business capacity, you know, make sure you’re thinking about your core product and not deviating your innovation efforts from that. What do you give to kind of reduce that? I think what is it, a scarcity mindset then that we have of just feeling afraid that if I, if I niche down or if I really get specific, I’m gonna miss opportunity. How do you help people with that?

Merit Kahn:

I, I think that the, the easiest way to help them through that is to help them see really the potential of the marketplace, even if they niche down to something pretty small. So in our ex, in, in my world, as an example, you could say that we provide sales, training, coaching consulting to anybody who sells anything, right. Like, right. You could, but that’s a, that’s really hard to target. It’s really hard to find them, you know, like AI doesn’t program for that. Right. Like I but instead, you know, we, we drill down, okay, well really in who do we, who do we not serve? Well, if you sell to governments you know, any, anything like that, like, that’s just, that’s a whole nother animal. Like we don’t touch that. If you can click here, buy now, that’s probably not our market. And we actually drill down to, it’s still pretty broad, but it’s, if you sell something custom creative, it requires a consultation and not a click here to buy now, we’ve got something for you.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh!

Merit Kahn:

Right. It’s complex, creative or requires a consultation. That’s when somebody, so that could speak to my engineering firms that I work with. My, IT companies, my in entre entrepreneurs, the woman who sells to nonprofits. I mean, it’s like, there’s a lot in there, but it we’re narrowing it down to a type of a process, not necessarily an industry or a decision-maker. So there’s lots of ways to narrow down your market without being concerned about whittling away so much at it that there’s nothing left. You’re gonna like pick up the phone and call your two prospects. <Laugh>

Jenn DeWall:

I like you just, just, it’s just narrowing down. You’re not closing opportunities. You’re just narrowing the list. And I know that I cut you off. I thought you were gonna say a four thing unless you were gonna go into the third of the open to business framework.

Merit Kahn:

Oh, right. No. Well, the last piece of the mechanic step is presentation, but the thing that people get wrong is they get so excited about their solutions that they step over qualifications or questions. Because they feel like their solution is so good. It’s gonna do the selling for them. And yeah. If you’re in a consultative sales process and your solutions are so good, then guess what? They don’t need a salesperson!

Jenn DeWall:

Right. So like we’re coming to you, you don’t even have to ask

Selling the Appropriate Product to the Appropriate Customer

Merit Kahn:

<Laugh>. Right. Yeah. So you only wanna, you wanna make sure that you are only presenting appropriate offers to the appropriate, you know, because they match for that pro prospect. And I, I have a whole online course on presenting proposals. And how do you, how do you set up the proposal? How do you go through all of that? I mean, there’s a lot of meat in there, but at the, you know, and it’s bare bones, it’s making sure you’ve gone through all the steps, checked off everything on the checklist before you get to that part where you’re really providing that, that solution and, you know, closing a deal.

Jenn DeWall:

I love the different, or just the distinction that you made of how important it is to balance, you know, going back to an earlier example the assertiveness with empathy, like your assertiveness might, your over assertiveness might show up in your mechanics piece by way of saying, everyone’s gonna want this. And that’s not true. Well, is there product, is there even a product or service that every single person on the planet would ever possibly want beyond water? Or like,

Merit Kahn:

No, even water, there’s so many types of water, bottled water, bubbly water, we can’t even agree on that.

Jenn DeWall:

If you really think of, like, I don’t know if there’s one thing I could think of that everyone loves or just feels that they need in their lives, unless it’s, you know, related to like me being alive. I don’t know what that is like, and I think, but maybe that example comes to mind because I think of that assertiveness, maybe that’s the way that I would think of it as like, Jenn, this is why you can’t try to please everyone. Cause you’re not there for everyone. And like just doing my own processing Merit <laugh>.

Transform Your Sales with Straightforward Conversations

Merit Kahn:

Yeah. No, I, I love that. I’m like, I feel like I’m watching therapy in real time. Like just you know, I think it’s fine to be not a perfect fit for everybody. And the more comfortable you are acknowledging that upfront it, it, some, some people use it like a strategy, like a technique, like a sales technique to say, you know, we’re not a perfect fit for everybody, but if I could show you a way and they, they take this like good new sales principle, but they marry it with some old school, you know, thing that doesn’t work anymore. Like, don’t, don’t say if I can show you a way, that’s no one that’s just pushy. But I feel like, you know, it’s okay to say, look, we’re really not a perfect fit for everybody. So if you’re open to it, let’s just have a straightforward conversation.

Merit Kahn:

Like, let’s just, I’m not gonna, I’m not, I’m nothing to sell you or I’m not gonna push any solutions. I don’t even know if we’re, if it’s appropriate for us to do business together. So why don’t we just take a first step, which is, let’s have that conversation. Let’s discover for each other, for ourselves, if there’s enough of a match to, you know, have a deeper conversation, like let’s start with 15 minutes. Is there enough that we could uncover in 15 minutes that leads us to, it’s appropriate to have a next conversation. And in 15 minutes, I know my basic qualifiers, you know, like you know, I’m listening for, is it complex? Is it creative? Is it consultative? Is it high ticket? Because you know, we’re not the cheapest training outfit in town either. And my clients, if they’re low, if they’re selling based on price, we’re not a match for them.

Merit Kahn:

I don’t work with people like that. I don’t want you to be the lowest price provider ever. You’re never gonna you’re you don’t set yourself up to win that way. Right. So I know that there are certain qualifiers. I might as well get those out of the way first. And every one of my prospects is gonna have that same deal. Right before we got on this podcast. I had a discovery call with a woman in Austin, Texas. And that’s where our company is headquarters, but I’m in Denver and I’m the, you know, the lead trainer. We have some trainers on the east coast and, and in the, you know, Central US, but you know, her first, I said, how did you find out about it? She said, I looked up sales training, Austin. And I was like, Hmm, well, here we go. Like we, you know, so. You know, like, all right, well just ask you right outta the gate. Is it a deal breaker? You know, we, we are no longer doing right now. We’re not doing our local training center that we have in Austin. We’re not doing training in that delivery model right now. Are you okay with that? Are you open to a virtual training program? And she’s like, oh yeah, actually that would be much better. Oh, okay. You know, so I didn’t like she, she was still qualified even though that could have been a disqualifier right outta the gate.

Jenn DeWall:

I love that. Like, and it’s simple. I feel like just to ask your qualifiers, you’re saving my time. You’re saving your time. Yeah. Gosh. I feel like all of us would get time back if we, if we did ask those questions, I think that’s, so I wanna get into your third part of your framework, which is, I believe it was motion. Am I right by that?

Measuring Your Progress

Merit Kahn:

Yes. So motion is all about what do you do? And that’s, you know, you start with your goals and then you build your action plan. You get really specific, but it’s about measuring and tracking. Make sure you have making sure you have the accountability structures in place to hold to make sure that you are going to reach your goals that you’re tracking well, every week you gotta check in on these things. And so we, you know, we have tools and tracking systems that we use with clients to check in and make sure that they’re holding themselves accountable or we’re holding themselves accountable because the numbers don’t lie. You know, if I, if I see that you are, you’re having a lot of discovery calls, initial conversations, but they’re not leading to an equal number of, you know, presentations where you’ve, you’ve gone through the qualifiers and now you’re presenting a solution. Well then there’s something wrong in that conversation. Or not wrong, but maybe that’s, you know, are we putting the, are we having calls with the wrong people? Are we not saying the right things on those calls? Like, why aren’t we leading to presentations or if you’re having a lot of presentations, but very few are turning in converting a closed business. Well then there’s something wrong with the presentation. So let’s use the numbers to tell us the stories to inform the coaching.

Jenn DeWall:

Yeah. And the part that I think is easy to be afraid of. Right. It’s easy to look at that and be like, but I have one, or I have a closed rate of 20%. And I feel like, I’ll just say, as a business owner, that’s often the one that I like to hide from <laugh> it’s like, I don’t wanna see the reality of what I think will happen and then reflecting, because I think that’s where the disappointment really sets it. And that’s where the, the, you know, that the inner critic just starts to say, are you in the right path? Are you doing the right things? So I love to hide from that, but obviously it’s not an easy thing to hide from because you can look in the bank and be reminded. <Laugh> like,

Merit Kahn:

You know, it’s, there’s no, there’s no getting around it. You’ve got to know what your numbers are. You’ve, you’ve got to track your percentages so that you, but not in an it, so it’s not to make yourself wrong. It’s to find the areas where you can improve. And I think there’s two things that, that make it a lot easier for people to come to grips with, with tracking their numbers. And one is that they, they let go of the make wrong part of this conversation. They lean into the fact that they have a growth mindset. That’s really the first thing. They have a growth mindset, so they know that they can improve and the numbers are strictly a tool to help them find the specific area is to spend their time on that improvement practice.

Merit Kahn:

And, you know, when you look at it like that, it’s like, oh, you know, okay, numbers gotta check my numbers, but I’m learning. And so I think that helps a lot. And the other thing is just that reality-testing piece, like, you know, balancing that like with optimism, like we talked about, as long as you can see a greater possibility, then the numbers are really just giving you access to make that a reality. It, but it’s not about, you know, we don’t track numbers to beat you up with them just to inform how do we help

Where to Find Merit Kahn

Jenn DeWall:

And I love it. And to help you access what you want. Yeah. We need to understand that Merit I’ve loved our conversation. How I, I know I’m gonna reinforce this with the bumper, but I, I always love it when, when our guests share it, how can people get in touch with you? How can they have you help with their sales? Cause I would actually appreciate it more people did. So then I don’t get harassing emails. So if you could help them with that but how can they get in touch with you?

Merit Kahn:

I think the best thing that what I’d really like to offer people is an opportunity to do an online assessment. It’s very, it’s pretty in depth. It’s our sales SWOT on steroids. We like to call it. So, you know, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats, but we’re just looking at that sales. We’re looking at the specific components of that open for business framework. So mindset, mechanics, motion. So if you go to MeritKahn.com/podcast, so M E R I T K A H N slash podcast, that’ll take you to a page there’s a free download. That explains a little bit more about the open for business framework. We’re always adding some new resources to that page, but there’s a link to take you to this online assessment. And let me tell you, Jen, what is, I won’t always be able to offer it like this, but for the time being until we’re way overloaded with it I will continue to make this pledge. I actually personally review all of the information that comes in through those SWOT assessments. And I do a personalized, a hundred percent custom, hi Jenn video to you to take you through what I see from the way that you answered that report. And, oh my gosh. I know it’s, it’s literally

Jenn DeWall:

Like an instant partner from taking that. That’s fantastic!

Merit Kahn:

Yes. Eventually we will get to the point where we need to automate that and it won’t be as personal, but I really believe that it’s a great tool. It’s been very eye-opening. It’s, you know, yes. You may wanna talk to us more about how we specifically can work with you on these things, but I will give you some various pinpoint feedback on what you can do and what’s the right part of that framework to start to work and, and make some progress for you. So highly recommend. Take me up on that. If it is, it’s a hell of an offer, I must say. And then also on that site, if you wanted to learn a little bit more about the select sales training offers, there’s a training tab on the Merit Kahn site wanna know about the speaking engagements I do for companies and associations, conferences, there’s information about that. And then there’s always the Let’s Talk button! 15 minutes on my calendar. I don’t know if we should work together. Let’s have a conversation if you’re open to it, take it, take me up on that too.

Jenn DeWall:

Oh my gosh. You just really laid down some offerings there. I love that, but me, what I really appreciated was just walking through and just giving it and making it accessible and also answering probably some of my personal and likely other people’s questions too. Thank you for giving The Leadership Habit community, your time, your expertise and your passion. I was so thrilled to have you back on the show. So thank you again.

Merit Kahn:

Thanks Jenn!

Jenn DeWall:

Thank so much for listening to this week’s episode in The Leadership Habit podcast, I loved my conversation with Merit and I just felt like it was stimulating and it helped me gain the confidence that I needed to even approach sales in a different way. And of course she just shared a great offer with all of our audience. So if you want to have access to Merit’s free online SWOT and get feedback directly from Merit, you can head on over to MeritKahn.com/podcast. Or you can find that link in our show notes. It’s spelled Merit, M E R I T K A H N dot com slash podcast. If you know someone that maybe is struggling with sales, or maybe they’re just getting into the sales part of their business, share this episode with them, spread that as well. And, of course, if you enjoy today’s podcast, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service until next time.